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  • Southern Iraq "Close To Mayhem"

    UK has left behind murder and chaos, says Basra police chief
    Blunt assessment delivered as British hand over security to Iraqis

    Mona Mahmoud, Maggie O'Kane and Ian Black
    Monday December 17, 2007
    The Guardian

    The full scale of the chaos left behind by British forces in Basra was revealed yesterday as the city's police chief described a province in the grip of well-armed militias strong enough to overpower security forces and brutal enough to behead women considered not sufficiently Islamic.

    As British forces finally handed over security in Basra province, marking the end of 4½ years of control in southern Iraq, Major General Jalil Khalaf, the new police commander, said the occupation had left him with a situation close to mayhem. "They left me militia, they left me gangsters, and they left me all the troubles in the world," he said in an in an interview for Guardian Films and ITV.

    Khalaf painted a very different picture from that of British officials who, while acknowledging problems in southern Iraq, said yesterday's handover at Basra airbase was timely and appropriate.

    Major General Graham Binns, who led British troops into the city in 2003, said the province had "begun to regain its strength". He added: "I came to rid Basra of its enemies and I now formally hand Basra back to its friends."

    But in the film, to be broadcast on the Guardian Unlimited website and ITV News, Khalaf lists a catalogue of failings, saying:

    · Basra has become so lawless that in the last three months 45 women have been killed for being "immoral" because they were not fully covered or because they may have given birth outside wedlock;

    · The British unintentionally rearmed Shia militias by failing to recognise that Iraqi troops were loyal to more than one authority;

    · Shia militia are better armed than his men and control Iraq's main port.

    In the interview he said the main problem the Iraqi security forces now faced was the struggle to wrest control back from the militia. He appealed for the British to help him do that: "We need the British to help us to watch our borders - both sea and land and we need their intelligence and air support and to keep training the Iraqi police."

    David Miliband, the foreign secretary, who attended the handover ceremony, acknowledged that the territory was not "a land of milk and honey" and promised Britain would remain a "committed friend" of Iraq.

    But he insisted it was the right time to hand back control. "The key conditions for the transfer of security responsibility to the Iraqi security forces are whether they are up to it: do they have the numbers? Do they have the leadership and training to provide leadership for this province? And the answer to those three questions is yes," he said.

    After the handover Des Browne, the defence secretary, praised British forces - 174 of whom have died since the start of the war in March 2003. "Their contribution has been outstanding and their courage inspiring," he said. A scaled-down UK force will remain in a single base at Basra airport, with a small training mission and a rapid reaction team on "overwatch".

    Britain now has 4,500 troops in Iraq. The prime minister, Gordon Brown, has said numbers would shrink to 2,500 by mid-2008 though those released may be redeployed to Afghanistan.

    Khalaf, who has survived 20 assassination attempts since he became police chief six months ago, said Britain's intentions had been good but misguided. "I don't think the British meant for this mess to happen. When they disbanded the Iraqi police and military after Saddam fell the people they put in their place were not loyal to the Iraqi government. The British trained and armed these people in the extremist groups and now we are faced with a situation where these police are loyal to their parties not their country."

    He said the most shocking aspect of the breakdown of law and order in Basra was the murder of women for being unIslamic. "They are being killed because they are accused of behaving in an immoral way. When they kill them they put underwear and indecent clothes on them."

    In his office Khalaf showed the Guardian a computer holding the files of 48 unidentified women. "Some of them have even been killed with their children because their killer says that they come out of an adulterous relationship," he said.

    Vince Cable, the acting Lib Dem leader, called for a timetable to bring all British troops home from Iraq, adding: "If we are handing power back to the Iraqis, why are 4,500 British troops needed for what is essentially a training mission?"

    · The General's Last Stand: a Guardianfilms/ITV News investigation can be seen now on the Guardian website and later tonight on ITV News at 6.30pm and 10.30pm
    The full scale of the chaos left behind by British forces in Basra was revealed yesterday as the city's police chief described a province in the grip of well-armed militias strong enough to overpower security forces and brutal enough to behead women considered not sufficiently Islamic


    The full scale of the chaos left behind by British forces in Basra was revealed yesterday as the city's police chief described a province in the grip of well-armed militias strong enough to overpower security forces and brutal enough to behead women considered not sufficiently Islamic.

    As British forces finally handed over security in Basra province, marking the end of 4½ years of control in southern Iraq, Major General Jalil Khalaf, the new police commander, said the occupation had left him with a situation close to mayhem. "They left me militia, they left me gangsters, and they left me all the troubles in the world," he said in an in an interview for Guardian Films and ITV.

    Khalaf painted a very different picture from that of British officials who, while acknowledging problems in southern Iraq, said yesterday's handover at Basra airbase was timely and appropriate.


    Hopefully things aren't as bad as feared but it still sounds pretty bad.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    What a complete opposite from that described in the speech the British commander gave when handing Basra back. I listened to it on radio yesterday.

    So my dilemma - Believe Oerdin and his source or believe the british military. Tough call.
    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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    • #3
      So...Did they give back more than 48" of territory or not?


      "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Wezil
        So my dilemma - Believe Oerdin and his source or believe the british military. Tough call.
        Lets just wait statement from US administration .

        Comment


        • #5
          well, another case of acute vertigeous corner turning I guess
          "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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          • #6
            Major General Jalil Khalaf is the police commander now in charge of Basrah. He is the one making these claims not I.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #7
              A bit off topic, but I just saw this remarkable display of the success of Baghdad's ethnic cleansing in WaPo:



              BAGHDAD When the Iraqi government last month invited home the 1.4 million refugees who had fled this war-ravaged country for Syria -- and said it would send buses to pick them up -- the United Nations and the U.S. military reacted with horror. U.N. refugee officials immediately advised against th...
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

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              • #8
                When has post-Saddam Iraq not been a complete ****storm?

                This is turning into a ridiculous waste of money. I say instead spending billions of dollars trying to rebuild and already failing state, go the Emperor Septimius Severus route, plunder anything of value, then withdraw.

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                • #9
                  As British forces finally handed over security in Basra province, marking the end of 4½ years of control in southern Iraq, Major General Jalil Khalaf, the new police commander, said the occupation had left him with a situation close to mayhem. "They left me militia, they left me gangsters, and they left me all the troubles in the world," he said in an in an interview for Guardian Films and ITV.
                  In short, they left Jalil with his homeboys!
                  "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
                    When has Iraq not been a complete ****storm?
                    fixed.
                    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      before Iraq Iran war...

                      but at least they are free now
                      Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                      GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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                      • #12
                        Saddam's Iraq wasn't a ****storm but rather a totalitarian hellhole. I can't think of any period in the region's 5,000 years of recorded history that could be classified as peaceful.

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                        • #13
                          nah pre Iraq Iran war it was pre-Saddam dictatorship too, and pretty OK by ME standards...

                          During Ottoman rule it was pretty easy going too... not so ancient history... last 20-30 years not so rosy though...
                          Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                          GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
                            Saddam's Iraq wasn't a ****storm but rather a totalitarian hellhole. I can't think of any period in the region's 5,000 years of recorded history that could be classified as peaceful.
                            A passage from Wikipedia:

                            A center of learning (8th to 9th c.)
                            Further information: Islamic Golden Age

                            Within a generation of its founding, Baghdad became a hub of learning and commerce. The House of Wisdom was an establishment dedicated to the translation of Greek, Middle Persian and Syriac works. The Barmakids were influential in bringing scholars from the nearby Academy of Gundishapur, facilitating the introduction of Greek and Indian science into the Arabic world. Baghdad was likely the largest city in the world from shortly after its foundation until the 930s, when it was tied by Córdoba.[8] Several estimates suggest that the city contained over a million inhabitants at its peak.[9] A portion of the population of Baghdad originated in Iran, especially from Khorasan. Many of Scheherazade's tales in One Thousand and One Nights are set in Baghdad during this period.

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                            • #15
                              Living on past glories?

                              The Greeks once used to invent things too.


                              I think on a serious note that if Southern Iraq is mayhem the Iraqis need to pull their finger out and sort it out.
                              Last edited by kittenOFchaos; December 17, 2007, 20:06.

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