How come you NEVER hear stories of westeners being charged in China?

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Having lived in China, I can attest that the authorities generally keep an arm's length away from westerners in general.

I've seen a nasty, brutal brawl break out between white guys at Sanlitun bar street in Beijing and the Chinese police arrived and just kept the Chinese citizens out of it. They refused to even arrest or charge the westerners - just stood back and let one guy kick the teeth out of a university student's mouth.

I asked them why they weren't doing anything about it and they were pretty curt. They just said "Let the embassies sort it out".

From my days in journalism I'd heard that the Chinese authorities never incarcerate western journalists, even those who publish anti-Chinese-government articles. The worst that's happened is that the authorities detain journalists for questioning (nonphysical) for a few hours, then ask them to sign a statement admitting some sort of guilt. Regardless of what they do, they typically revoke their work permits and never issue another one, meaning they have to leave the country and not come back.

One time when I was at university in Beijing, a Jewish (white) guy got drunk and hijacked a taxi. It seemed like hilarious fun at the time, I guess, but he left his jacket behind with some papers that showed he was a student at Qinghua Uni. The authorities pulled him in and questioned him at the police station for the best part of a day, plying him with coffee that he never touched. The Jewish student was released just fine but a Chinese-American student who was in the same car with him taking part in the joyride ended up disappearing. We feared for him, but it turned out it wasn't necessary - he had skipped on a plane back to LA and would not be coming back.

Part of this may be racial deference - I've heard other situations where foreigners can get away with a slightly greater amount of presumptive behavior than Asians in China.

But part of this also seems to be racial aversion - almost like you can't trust westerners to behave themselves so just treat them with kid gloves until they buzz off or wise up.

It's all a muddle, true enough.

Ah, thank you for confirming what I suspected .

[Wezil]

Yes, ignore links/evidence/facts that disprove your position and go with the anecdotal "proof".

Makes things easy.

[Vesayen]

A google search with 20,000 hits for the word "american" and "chinese" is worthless. I am not ignoring anything of value.

[Wezil]

I hate to burst your bubble Vesayen but you askd about "westeners being charged in China", not Americans.

There are plenty of westerners arrested/charged/detained/jailed in China. The evidence has been provided.

[Vesayen]

Wing, unless you have some special forum code which lets you see invisible posts, there has not been any "proof" here.

[Wezil]

"Wing"?

Originally posted by Wezil

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/08/08/protest-china.html?ref=rss

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/205284

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/...ils060112.html

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Wezil
Yes, ignore links/evidence/facts that disprove your position and go with the anecdotal "proof".

Makes things easy.

Right, because living in China for 10 years and observing stuff is far less reliable than Googling it.

[Vesayen]

CBC does not count, one random news site i've never heard of-I did not hear that story in any other source anyway. The star, okay, that is one(one).

The question is better answered by Alienstra then 1 news article.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia


Right, because living in China for 10 years and observing stuff is far less reliable than Googling it.

The CBC is wrong about Canadians arrested and jailed in China?

The thread starter said "NEVER" in big capital letters. He has been proven wrong despite the fact you personally happen to know some people that weren't charged.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Vesayen
CBC does not count, one random news site i've never heard of-I did not hear that story in any other source anyway. The star, okay, that is one(one).

The question is better answered by Alienstra then 1 news article.

The fact you've never heard of the CBC does not surprise me. You have also never heard of westerners being arrested in China. B follows A.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Vesayen
CBC does not count, one random news site i've never heard of

You're kidding, right?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Wezil - fair enough, I see your point.

However, his title says "never hear" of westerners in trouble.

Your link is perfectly valid in proving that there are stories about them. It proves nothing, however, about specifically why Ves has never heard of them.

If you're going to go with a literalist reading, the question was phrased on a broadly subjective issue that nobody can really answer.

Objectively, I offered some evidence to show that there is a factual reason for the phenomenon. You're right in that it's not an absolute phenomenon (i.e. "never") but every Chinese "news researcher" I've spoken to has confirmed that even in the press, which the CCP is very touchy about, white people are let off far more lightly than Chinese-born workers. (They call them researchers because they're not allowed technically to work as journalists officially.)

Edit: I just realized "earplugs" could be a suitable answer to Ves' question?

[Wezil]

AC - Fair enough. The problem from the Chinese side is that often the "crimes" westerners are accused of would not be a crime in the western world and the Chinese simply don't want the grief of detaining such people. Much easier to deport them and not allow them back. I agree this is the preferred approach in most cases.

As to why Ves hasn't heard of ANY stories I don't know. The direction this thread took provides some clues however. Apparently a "westerner" is an American and I presume major media is all that counts, and this of course could only be CNN, FOX, ABC, etc...

[Qilue]

I did some searches.

foreign citizen "arrested in china" 998
foreign citizen "arrested by chinese" 697
foreign citizen "arrested by china" 127

foreign citizen "arrested in us" 922
foreign citizen "arrested by american" 868
foreign citizen "arrested by us" 2640

foreigner "arrested in china" 2300
foreigner "arrested by chinese" 572
foreigner "arrested by china" 841

foreigner "arrested in us" 2110
foreigner "arrested by american" 1460
foreigner "arrested by us" 3370

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Having lived in China, I can attest that the authorities generally keep an arm's length away from westerners in general.

I've seen a nasty, brutal brawl break out between white guys at Sanlitun bar street in Beijing and the Chinese police arrived and just kept the Chinese citizens out of it. They refused to even arrest or charge the westerners - just stood back and let one guy kick the teeth out of a university student's mouth.

I asked them why they weren't doing anything about it and they were pretty curt. They just said "Let the embassies sort it out".

From my days in journalism I'd heard that the Chinese authorities never incarcerate western journalists, even those who publish anti-Chinese-government articles. The worst that's happened is that the authorities detain journalists for questioning (nonphysical) for a few hours, then ask them to sign a statement admitting some sort of guilt. Regardless of what they do, they typically revoke their work permits and never issue another one, meaning they have to leave the country and not come back.

One time when I was at university in Beijing, a Jewish (white) guy got drunk and hijacked a taxi. It seemed like hilarious fun at the time, I guess, but he left his jacket behind with some papers that showed he was a student at Qinghua Uni. The authorities pulled him in and questioned him at the police station for the best part of a day, plying him with coffee that he never touched. The Jewish student was released just fine but a Chinese-American student who was in the same car with him taking part in the joyride ended up disappearing. We feared for him, but it turned out it wasn't necessary - he had skipped on a plane back to LA and would not be coming back.

Part of this may be racial deference - I've heard other situations where foreigners can get away with a slightly greater amount of presumptive behavior than Asians in China.

But part of this also seems to be racial aversion - almost like you can't trust westerners to behave themselves so just treat them with kid gloves until they buzz off or wise up.

It's all a muddle, true enough.

I see this attitude changing as more westerners are moving to China. One of my friends there was in a bar fight and threatened with a knife by a Chinese man. The police did nothing. Foreigners do seem to operate under different rules in China. Sometimes it's beneficial, sometimes it's not.