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Scottish Independence and the SNP

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  • Scottish Independence and the SNP




    The SNP wants Scotland to have what other countries take for granted – the freedom to decide what kind of society we want to live in and how we want to interact with the world around us. In other words, normality.

    As individuals, we value our own independence. We accept that it is entirely natural to make our own decisions, to earn and spend our own money, and to take responsibility for our own lives. Why should we settle for anything less for our country?

    As a nation, we accept the independence of other countries as normal. We do not think it strange that the people of Norway and Denmark run their own affairs. We would not expect the people of Ireland or Sweden to ask another nation to take decisions for them because they didn’t feel up to the job. Why should the people of Scotland be any different?

    Most of us also want our communities to have more independence. We want to have a greater say in deciding how our public services should be funded and delivered, we want to participate in decisions which affect the environment around us and we want to contribute more to the communities we live in. That too is normal - but it won't happen unless we start by taking control of our country and taking decisions for ourselves.


    If you read the above you'd think that Scotland was an occupied nation rather than an overrepresented part of a democracy. Additionally, I don't see how the case made above is anymore relevant to Scottish Indepence than say, Yorkshire independence, Lancastrian independence, Cornish independence etc...


    Anway, it's this bit that I'm more interested in:

    Independence would give us full control of energy policy – and bring home Scotland’s share of North Sea oil and gas revenues.

    More than 90 per cent of the UK’s oil revenues come from the Scottish sector of the Continental Shelf. So it really is Scotland’s oil.

    Over the past thirty years over 35 billion barrels have been extracted from the UK sector of the North Sea, producing a cash windfall for the UK government of over £200 billion. There is plenty of potential left in the North Sea, with as much as half of the oil yet to come and new opportunities opening up for the oil industry to the north and west of Scotland.

    As an independent country Scotland could follow the example of Norway and invest a share of our future oil revenues in a fund to benefit future generations. By investing just part of our oil wealth, Scotland could have an Oil Fund worth billions within a decade.

    In addition to oil, we have vast renewable energy potential. Scotland has 25 per cent of Europe’s wind and tidal capacity and 10 per cent of its wave power. There are huge, untapped opportunities for offshore energy production and for clean carbon technologies like carbon capture. The SNP is determined to harness this potential and turn it into a successful and sustainable industry.

    Oil and renewables - along with a set of pro-Scottish business policies – can help transform Scottish prospects over the next 30 years. They are far too important to be left to London. It is time to move on so Scotland’s precious natural resources can help fuel our nation’s future prosperity.


    Of course, I wouldn't dare accuse Scottish independence to be all about oil, but it does play an interesting role in any potential divorce.

    I am interested in the partition of the Czech Republic and Slovakia when they demerged. The split of assets was based on relative populations regardless of physical location of said assets. So the way you could argue it, based on historic international precedent, is that Scotland's population of 5 million, about 8-9% of the UK total get 8-9% of the oil, not 90%.

    I'm wondering if the nationalists are selling themselves short by not using this argument. They could forget the oil and go after 8-9% of the net wealth of the nation. Maybe they thought of this and realised that the UK is actually in debt and so they don't really want to split the liabilities too.

    The other option for the anti-independence is of course to prattle on about how the break-up of Yugoslavia was so terrible. I still don't understand the relevance. Is England about to go on the rampage and ethnically cleanse Scots, Welshmen and Yorkshiremen who look a bit foreign?
    One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

  • #2
    I don't know how I feel about the Scots having nuclear weapons.
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    • #3
      I'd be fun to see the political parties kick out all of the scots if they did get independance
      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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      • #4
        That oil may sit in Scottish waters but a quick look at the tax bases and its English money that built the infrastructure to extract it.
        Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
        -Richard Dawkins

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        • #5
          The "occupied victim" angle is crap. Ironically it is the English who hold the less constitutional power in the current union arrangements.

          The total pigs-ear that the Scots have made of their own parliament (described by a Scottish friend of mine as 'parish council standard' in its level of political maturity) should suggest caution in dreaming of a seperatist utopia.

          The 8-9% split would be interesting though - as it would apply to the nuclear weapons as well. If they want them.

          A recent BBC article looked at the pitfalls ahead in a possible 'messy divorce'.

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          • #6
            I quite like the Robert Burns poem where he says how Scotland couldn't be beaten or conquered by the English so we resorted to simply purchasing the country from its nobles.

            Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
            Fareweel our ancient glory;
            Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,
            Sae fam'd in martial story.
            Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
            An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
            To mark where England's province stands-
            Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

            What force or guile could not subdue,
            Thro' many warlike ages,
            Is wrought now by a coward few,
            For hireling traitor's wages.
            The English stell we could disdain,
            Secure in valour's station;
            But English gold has been our bane-
            Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

            O would, or I had seen the day
            That Treason thus could sell us,
            My auld grey head had lien in clay,
            Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
            But pith and power, till my last hour,
            I'll mak this declaration;
            We're bought and sold for English gold-
            Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
            Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
            -Richard Dawkins

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            • #7
              If you read the above you'd think that Scotland was an occupied nation rather than an overrepresented part of a democracy.
              That's what the SNP's core vote believe. That, and countries being real tangible things of genuine moral importance.

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              • #8
                Alex Salmond is a very clever politician, his srtergy seems to be to piss teh English off by giving the Scots lots of things they don't have like free care for the elderly, lower council tax and no university tuition fees.

                This will result in a clamour for an English parliament and it's goodbye to the UK
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                • #9
                  Tribalism is stupid and the SNP is all about tribalism.
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                  • #10
                    It depends how nationalist the English are feeling. There are certainly plenty of nutters on the Internet, though that doesn't translate to the real world.

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                    • #11
                      Will Scotland be willing to undergo two turns of anarchy however?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vesayen
                        Will Scotland be willing to undergo two turns of anarchy however?
                        And more importantly it’s just too unbalancing a feature to implement! Next game the Scottish should learn from their mistakes poprush and not run the vassal civic.
                        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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                        • #13
                          I surmise that they'll be taking Northern Ireland along with them, too?
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jkp1187
                            I surmise that they'll be taking Northern Ireland along with them, too?

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                            • #15
                              Blair's devolution schemes have turned things into a bloody mess of confusing have measures. I mean they now have local parliaments in Scotland and Northern Ireland but Wales didn't get one while the largest and most important part of the UK, England, also gets no local Parliament. If the UK wants to be a federal system like the US then each of the four parts should have a local Parliament as well as representation in the national parliament with a constitution defining what each body's powers are.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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