Will the U.S. ever have an athiest/agnostic president?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Nubclear
I don't think atheists can be moral, but I could be wrong: I just don't get how you can have morality without God, since if there isn't a God, why should you act moral in the first place?

8.7/10

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Nubclear
I don't think atheists can be moral, but I could be wrong: I just don't get how you can have morality without God, since if there isn't a God, why should you act moral in the first place?

Maybe on planet America, here in Europe we dealt with the death of God as a philosophical problem way back in the 19th century, heck even some ancient Greeks had good ideas on the subject!

PS From a practical perspective, most people who aren’t religious nuts but belive, behave more or less the way they would if they didn’t believe in God.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Eventually the sheer weight of urbanized voters for whom religion is less important than policy will outweigh the mostly rural voters who make a choice influenced primarily by religion.

This may not happen anytime soon.

[Vesayen]

We have had a Roman Catholic president.

It is not certain but right now there are good odds a black man or a woman might be president.

Is it really a stretch for an atheist or agnostic president?

Not all atheists wear a badge that say "I am an atheist!" and few agnostis do.

If the agnostic simply did not talk about his religious practices, I have no doubt they could win.

If they are an "activist atheist"... they do not have a prayer. You know the sort. They insist on forcing their views on others. Atheism is fine, I've given it some very, very, very serious thought myself and dabbled in it, but trying to force it on others or claiming false victimhood like demanding the word "god" be taken off of money, is not something the American people will support.

If they are a normal, rational atheist(like most of them are) and don't attempt to overthrow all societal norms(and most of them dont), I have no doubt they could be elected to the presidency.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Nubclear
I don't think atheists can be moral, but I could be wrong: I just don't get how you can have morality without God, since if there isn't a God, why should you act moral in the first place?

Secular humanism. I was athiest for a bit. I've waffled between Judaism, agnosticism and athiesm for almost a decade now(should I hold an anniversary party heh?).

Athiests can be moral by a wide range of morality systems, without the existance of a divine entity.

Most of them essentially boil down to the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" theory. The WIBN theory goes something like this.

"Wouldn't it be nice if we agreed to not rob, steal, rape, beat or murder each other?

Oh, you agree also?

Great! Lets have an organized society and enjoy consumer goods."

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Vesayen

Is it really a stretch for an atheist or agnostic president?

Not all atheists wear a badge that say "I am an atheist!" and few agnostis do.

If the agnostic simply did not talk about his religious practices, I have no doubt they could win.

And what do they replace the "leaving Sunday church" photo-op with?

Nope. They can't win.

[Vesayen]

I think 90% of what canidates do in campaigning has no appreciable impact on the result of the election.

Highlights and big points are what stick in peoples mind.

"Oh that swift boating bastard is a traitor and a liar, I can't vote for him!"

"That guy is boring, I can't vote for him."

"That guy is a corrupt big buisness man, I can't vote for him"

Almost all of these sticking points oddly enough, are negative.

Some of the big ones however, that may seem to be positive, really are negative(in relation to the other guy)

"Vote for Bob because John wants to (ban/keep) abortion"

I would put photo ops of church attendance on the scale of importance as what the voter had for breakfast the morning they went to vote, except for a small segment of the population who are both A. Gullible enough to think a picture of a man in church means he is actually religious and B. Care if he is religious.

[Wezil]

The Church pic is a must. The voters want to know the candidate believes in God (preferably the right God). This is not a "small segment" in the US.

I know a US atheist that is "in the closet" b/c he fears the reaction from friends and family.

[Vesayen]

Most voters don't actually care.

Obviously the fundamentalist do. The rest, really don't care about the guys religion. They just want a nice guy and a competant guy, mostly they want someone who is better then "the other guy" who they hate.

Where is your friend from? I find that hard to swallow unless he is in Texas(See my many threads about my desire to throw it out of the union) or some other gods forsaken hellhole.

No matter how hard I try to convince non Americans that America REALLY isn't full of crazy religious people, I never suceed. We are more religious then Europe. This does not mean everyone goes to church every day or even every week, most of America is not religious in any meaningful way besides going to church less then a dozen times a year.

[Wezil]

I'll leave it to someone else to find some stats but I believe you are dead wrong. A significant proportion do care (I'd guess at 25%+).

Anyone have some polling on this?

[Vesayen]

Difficult thing to poll really, there is a big and inherant selection bias for this sort of thing.

How did JFK win and was incredibly popular when he was roman catholic, if religion of the canidate is a central issue to a quarter of the population?

How did a Jewish vice president ACTUALLY win the election in 2000, if the population cares about religion so much for the canidate they elect, not only a Jew, but an observant, practicing Jew?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Wezil
I don't think there is a "long enough" for that.

It's a smaller step than Emancipation->Obama (~150y) or Suffrage->Hillary (~80y) would be. So call it ~50y.

[Aeson]

"Acting morally" != "Universal moral system"

thx k bye

[Vesayen]

Obama's familly(African side) imigrated long, long, long after slavery ended.

His extended familly also had some southern slave holders in it.

Irony eh?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Vesayen

How did a Jewish vice president ACTUALLY win the election in 2000,