Intercity passenger rail in the US

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Intercity passenger rail in the US

Originally posted by Oerdin


LA to San Francisco wouldn't be an ideal route. The coastal route in between is very sparsly populated and has lots of very steep mountains. Look at this picture:

If I recall correctly the proposed California High Speed Rail Network would have a main TGV like line following the route of Interstate 5 from San Diego to Sacramento with three smaller lines; one San Francisco to Reno, NV and another from Los Angles to Las Vegas, and a final line from San Diego to Santa Barbara servicing the densely populated coastal cities of Southern California.

IIRC the plan is LA to to SF (well Oakland, actually, with a possible side route up the Silicon Valley to SF) via the central Valley, with stops at Fresno, Merced, etc. But most of the ridership between greater LA and greater SF. There was some debate about where the suburban stops in greater LA should be (that was actually my involvement BTW) With future extensions to San Diego at the one end, and Sacramento at the other.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS
You've got to have major cities anchoring the line. That's why the major service in the Northeast Corridor doesn't end at Richmond, but rather at Washington. Don't know that Sacramento would be enough of a draw.

The main ideal is that a TGV like speed train could be routed through California's central valley much more cheaply then on the coast and it would link up the San Francisco to Reno line with the two southern Californian lines. The San Francisco to Reno line would go through places like Davis and Sacramento roughly following Interstate 80; this is one of the most heavily traveled routes in Northern California as everyone loves to take a weekend vacation to ski and gamble at Lake Tahoe. LA to Vegas would clearly be a viable line as would the already profitable & heavily traveled "Coaster" route (San Diego- Santa Barbara via Los Angles).

Arnold killed the voter approved California High Speed Rail Network claiming a lack of funds though he later came back proposing a single line following a twisting path from San Diego to LA then going inland to Sacramento. Unfortunately such a route would likely only go as fast as regular Amtrak trains so it wouldn't be high speed.

I say this is a do it right or don't do it at all type activity and Arnold's proposal doesn't measure up. Here's Arnold's CA High Speed Rail Authority web page: http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/

[Dinner]

If I recall correctly, Zkribbler might remember the details better then I, a private company had proposed paying for a LA to Vegas bullet train but only if the states of California and Nevada gave them right of ways free of charge. Of course both states refused so the rail line never got built.

[DanS]

I think that TGV-like rail is unrealistic at this time. It's cool, but the politics do not yet favor it.

Is there a line in use now? How long does it take LA-Oakland? If so, how much would it cost to increase speeds?

[Winston]

Originally posted by DanS

Washington to New York

[...]

Average fare about $200 one-way.

Hmm. I seem to recall paying ~$70 just 2 years ago. And might I add for a very smooth and pleasant travel experience.

[DanS]

Are you sure you were on the Acela Express service?

They are charging what the market will bear. And the market is bearing quite a big these days.

Also, I think there's some first class tickets bringing up the average a little.

[Arrian]

I just looked up fares NYC-DC for Acela service. It does look like ~ $200 round trip - coach class.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Acela's problem is that it runs on old infrastructure and thus can't really go that fast. Meh.

Building new infrastructure would be extremely costly, and thus requires quite a committment. I don't think other modes of travel have gotten expensive enough yet, basically.

-Arrian

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DanS
Is there a line in use now? How long does it take LA-Oakland? If so, how much would it cost to increase speeds?

There's no rapid train from LA-Bay Area. From L.A. to Martinez (on the East Bay), it takes all day...until about 10 p.m.

I calculated that Japan's bullet train would take two hours to make this run.

A rapid train would cost scads to build. Much of the track along the way is worn out and current trains have to creep over it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
Acela's problem is that it runs on old infrastructure and thus can't really go that fast. Meh.

Building new infrastructure would be extremely costly, and thus requires quite a committment. I don't think other modes of travel have gotten expensive enough yet, basically.

-Arrian

In retrospect, it seems to have been a mistake to have recapitalized the corridor for "somewhat higher speeds" in the NECIP, but who was to know then that truely high speeds would be considered viable.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kontiki
I dunno how viable inter-city rail would be in California, if only because San Francisco is the only city there with a concentrated core that people want to get to. How many people really want to go to (or from) downtown LA or San Diego?

Several million each day.

[DanS]

I don't think truly high speeds are viable in the corridor. I can't even begin to fathom the billions it would take to relay the track from Washington to Boston in a more direct fashion.

Besides, if the $650 million is spent, the speeds will be pretty good.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Arrian
I just looked up fares NYC-DC for Acela service. It does look like ~ $200 round trip - coach class.

-Arrian

Acela doesn't have coach. It would be $200 round-trip on the regional (non-Acela Express) service.

[VetLegion]

Canals, canals and barges is the future! The past, but also the future. I forsee a day when every man will have his own boat to go to work with

[DanS]

Fun fact. About 20 years before the trains were built, US companies built extensive canal systems. Once the train came along, however, the canal quickly became obsolete.

My great grandfather was one of the first people in my home town to own a car, bringing about the quick obsolescence of passenger rail. Unfortunately, he was killed trying to outrun a train to the railroad crossing.

Karma's a ***** sometimes.