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USA says it has the right to kidnap people in foreign countries

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  • USA says it has the right to kidnap people in foreign countries

    according to one of its own laws of 1860 and obviously wants to continue to execute this right (no, not only for suspects in terrorism but also for suspects in other crimes).

    AMERICA has told Britain that it can “kidnap” British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.

    A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it.

    The admission will alarm the British business community after the case of the so-called NatWest Three, bankers who were extradited to America on fraud charges. More than a dozen other British executives, including senior managers at British Airways and BAE Systems, are under investigation by the US authorities and could face criminal charges in America.

    Until now it was commonly assumed that US law permitted kidnapping only in the “extraordinary rendition” of terrorist suspects.

    The American government has for the first time made it clear in a British court that the law applies to anyone, British or otherwise, suspected of a crime by Washington.

    Legal experts confirmed this weekend that America viewed extradition as just one way of getting foreign suspects back to face trial. Rendition, or kidnapping, dates back to 19th-century bounty hunting and Washington believes it is still legitimate.
    ...
    During a hearing last month Lord Justice Moses, one of the Court of Appeal judges, asked Alun Jones QC, representing the US government, about its treatment of Gavin, Tollman’s nephew. Gavin Tollman was the subject of an attempted abduction during a visit to Canada in 2005.

    Jones replied that it was acceptable under American law to kidnap people if they were wanted for offences in America. “The United States does have a view about procuring people to its own shores which is not shared,” he said.

    He said that if a person was kidnapped by the US authorities in another country and was brought back to face charges in America, no US court could rule that the abduction was illegal and free him: “If you kidnap a person outside the United States and you bring him there, the court has no jurisdiction to refuse — it goes back to bounty hunting days in the 1860s.”

    The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment.


    IMHO it is very interesting, especially considering that the USA on the other hand had strong opposition against the International Criminal Court, because it could mean US citizens could be persecuted by the court outside of US territory (and even did threaten to invade the netherlands [where the court is located] for the case that any US citizen would be arrested).

    Sounds very hypocritical to me:
    "Of course we have every right to kidnap people everywhere within the world no matter if foreign citizens or US citizens, if they´re wanted for whatever crime in the USA. But don´t you dare to do the same thing to an US citizen if he/she ifs wanted for any crime within your country"
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

  • #2
    I can't believe that you are still surprised by hypocritical behavior of the USA. But, I do admit this is very surprising to me as well. BTW Did they really threathen to invade the Netherlands if any US citizen was being tried there by the ICC? That seems extreme… for any country.





    And to be perfectly clear on this point, I must say I’m very upset with the UK too. When will the Brits get back to were they left off in the 18th century- civilising the north American continent ?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    • #3
      I think what we're saying is "piss off, we'll do whatever we like" to the world. You know, like we do in every case.

      We suck that way.

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      • #4
        No wonder our population isn't growing
        Blah

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        • #5
          Well, I think that the White House and Congress have shown such impeccable commitment to truth, justice, and against corruption that we shouldn't worry about them kidnapping a few of our citizens. Of course it will be fair if they do so... :drinking cool-aid smiley:
          http://www.hardware-wiki.com - A wiki about computers, with focus on Linux support.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Heraclitus
            I can't believe that you are still surprised by hypocritical behavior of the USA. But, I do admit this is very surprising to me as well. BTW Did they really threathen to invade the Netherlands if any US citizen was being tried there by the ICC? That seems extreme… for any country.

            ...
            I´m not so much surprised about their actkions.

            After all we had the case of Al Masri, german citizen, who was kidnapped in Macedonia, deported to Afghanistan and held there for everal month during which he was severely mistreated, everything only, because his name sounded similar to the name of an suspected al quaida member.

            I am only astonished about how openly the US ministry of justice admits, that kidnapping foreign citizens everywhere on the world is perfectly legal for them.
            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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            • #7
              I want to hear more about this threat to "invade" the Netherlands if the US government was displeased with the trial of a US national by the international court there. That sounds like someone placing exceptional spin on something quite different from an invasion.

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              • #8
                Well, they didn´t directly say "We will invade if you detain anyone of us",
                instead they made a law about it in 2002.

                The American Service-Members' Protection Act.

                In it the USA reserves for itself the right to free with the use of force any american serviceman or official that is being held by the ICC.
                It also prohibits any military aid to participiants in the court (with some exceptions however) and prohibits the USA from giving any help to the ICC (or to extradite anyone on US soil who is pursued bby te ICC)

                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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                • #9
                  US, hypocritical!?

                  I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you…
                  Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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                  • #10
                    Hey, if a small country like Israel can do this, why not a big country like the US&A? Except that was an Israeli citizen.
                    Graffiti in a public toilet
                    Do not require skill or wit
                    Among the **** we all are poets
                    Among the poets we are ****.

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                    • #11
                      And don’t even let me get started about Israel…
                      Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by onodera
                        Hey, if a small country like Israel can do this, why not a big country like the US&A? Except that was an Israeli citizen.
                        Here's to small countries like Israel

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                        • #13
                          if this is the case how is this situation any different then what dog the bounty hunter did in mexico with the rapist? And if im correct any citizen of the us arrested for a crime in the other country, they are punished by said country. I dont recall the us getting involved with the punishment of its citizens in other countries unless its a high profile case, not that that makes it right by the way.

                          If what dog did is claimed to be perfectly legal why was he extradicted with the help of us marshals?
                          When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is.
                          "It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
                          Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.

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                          • #14
                            Kidnapping is a crime in most countries MrsT.
                            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                            • #15
                              Something I've always been curious about. Do other countries have the concept of bail? If so, what recourse does the bondsman have if the person flees? If not, is the accused held until trial?
                              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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