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  • Subways -- underground or above-ground

    Over the next 8 years, suburban Virginia will spend over $4 billion to extend Washington's Metrorail system 23 miles to Dulles airport through Tyson's Corner, a major shopping and business district.

    There has been very strong public support for the project and as a big project is a settled local political matter, but of course there has been lots of dickering over the details. One of these details is whether to put the subway extension above ground or below ground in the Tyson's Corner portion of the extension. In order to obtain about $1 billion for the project from the federal government, local officials decided that the extension would be above-ground. The federal government generally is hostile to heavy rail -- it's full of diesel bus "rapid transit" lovers. It was hard enough to get the federal government to contribute anything to the project at all. In fine American tradition, this morning a group calling itself tysonstunnel.org has filed suit against the federal government to force the project below ground. It is unknown if and how long the suit will delay the project.

    By way of background, Metrorail is one of the two subway systems in the United States that has a critical mass and works -- NYC's being the other. About half of Metrorail's 106 miles is below ground (mostly in the city of DC) and about half above ground (mostly in the suburbs). Tyson's Corner is moving toward being a dense city with skyscrapers and everything, which is creating the move toward underground.

    Here is an example of station below ground at Metro Center.



    Attached is an example of station above ground at Silver Spring (Maryland suburbs).

    How do these things work in your neighborhood and who makes the decisions? Do you think underground is worth the extra construction costs?
    Attached Files
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    Underground. duh.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      Even if we're talking an extra $50 - $75 million a mile? Is TO's system all underground?
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #4
        Below ground. Over the long term above-ground rail becomes an eyesore.

        Toronto's is a mix but don't use TO as a guide for anything. City council there is insane.
        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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        • #5
          What's the mix?

          I used the Silver Spring station for several years. While the aesthetics weren't ideal, and it would have been nice to wait in the heat and cooling of the underground, it wasn't too much of a tragedy.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DanS
            What's the mix?

            I used the Silver Spring station for several years. While the aesthetics weren't ideal, and it would have been nice to wait in the heat and cooling of the underground, it wasn't too much of a tragedy.
            TO is a mix (stuff outside of the core is sometimes above). It's the above ground stuff that constantly ****s up in bad weather.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • #7
              Plus, as I mentioned a decades old rail system looks like crap.

              I realise it costs considerably more to do it right but doesn't it always.
              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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              • #8
                For those who support underground in all instances, do you think it makes sense to file suit and delay the above-detailed project until it is put underground? If so, what happens if it is delayed to its ultimate death?
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                • #9
                  If that was planned for my neighborhood I would oppose it as well.

                  If the planners would rather kill the project than do it right - so be it.
                  "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is that your final answer?

                    The project wouldn't come up again for another generation at least. Meanwhile, the traffic is becoming unbearable.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #11
                      Do you feel it better to do something wrong or not to do it at all?
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                      • #12
                        That would be my final answer.

                        Traffic can't be too unbearable else it would get done.
                        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                        • #13
                          I suggest that putting it above-ground is not wrong, even if suboptimal.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wezil
                            Traffic can't be too unbearable else it would get done.
                            Good point. However, localities can regret what they have done. 20 years ago, Georgetown didn't want a Metrorail station because they thought they would be flooded with poor, violent darkies. Nowadays, they regret that choice ever so much.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How close would the eyesore be to your property Dan?
                              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                              Comment

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