Finally! An alternative for Afghan poppy growers

[LordShiva]

Re: Finally! An alternative for Afghan poppy growers

Burmese poppy growers?

[Wezil]

Don't try being a grammar Nazi with me. You won't be able to keep up.

[Wezil]

This thread has taken a tragic turn toward seriousness.

We need more pics.

[Berzerker]

thats beautiful....man

[C0ckney]

i feel we all should be doing more to help poor afghan farmers.

[Wezil]

I think we should buy their weed.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

You know, if we legalized pot, slapped a decent tax on it, and gave preferred trading partner status to Afghanistan, we could solve more problems at once then any action in the history of the US government.

[Wezil]

That would make too much sense Rufus.

Besides, it might put BC pot growers out of business.

[Patroklos]

You know, if we legalized pot, slapped a decent tax on it, and gave preferred trading partner status to Afghanistan, we could solve more problems at once then any action in the history of the US government.

Stop trying to steal my presidential platform

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Wezil
That would make too much sense Rufus.

Besides, it might put BC pot growers out of business.

No problem. We don't have a free trade agreement with Afghanistan so we just slap some punitive damages on the cheap Afghan smoke, and the BC growers can go on pumping out overpriced, overchemicaled crap.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Wezil
I think we should buy their weed.

Ours is a whole lot better

Spec.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Wezil
That would make too much sense Rufus.

Besides, it might put BC pot growers out of business.

The best weed comes from basements.

Spec.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Spec

The best weed comes from basements.

Spec.

[Wezil]

.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Wezil

edit -



Granted. It's just that you and I have seen this movie before. I thought we might speed things up and jump forward a few scenes.

Wrt "occupation". I'm not into the same old argument with you on this. I know and respect your position but we disagree. Let's try it this way - If Karzai's government were to tell us (the West) to leave immediately, would we? If you say yes I will accuse you of being disingenuous. If you say no...

Id like to know the circumstances that led to that. Not just an assertion out of the blue that hed do that for no particular reason, with no discussion of the political context. If he DID ask us to leave, under circumstances of a broad domestic consensus to do so, and without enabling sanctuary for AQ, I think it would be extremely difficult for us to stay.

If he did so on the basis of an agreement with the Taliban that enable all or part of Afghanistan to be a haven for AQ, then we would not leave. But then if ANY state where we currently have troops, were to declare itself a haven for AQ, I would have trouble seeing us not keeping troops there.

As to the strawmen,

In large part the mission is under stress PRECISELY due to the mistakes of the SOVEREIGN Afghan govt.

A government comprised of Karzai and other western lackies. Our chosen ones doing our bidding which of course leads to Karzai's problems with drug issues and his constant pleas to the US to quit bombing the **** out of civilians. Pleas that go ignored b/c he's not really in charge. Also, notice the distinct absense of Taliban representation in the government. They weren't acceptable to us.

They also werent acceptable to the former Northern Alliance elements, who are in fact the strongest political opposition to Kharzai, and who have found Kharzai to be too soft on ex-Taliban. AFAICT, between the ex NA types on the one side, and the Pashtuns (including guys whod collaborated with the Taliban) on the other, my impression is that Kharzai and the pro-Western Kabul types were about as close to the Afghan center as you could find.

Naturally when there are two allies, and the fighting is happening on the soil of one, there are going to be disagreements about strategy and tactics. And he cant do much to stop us, cause if he does, we can leave, which is still a bigger threat to him, than to us. And will be until the Afghan national army is strong enough to fight the Taliban on its own.

Also due to the failure of the international community to come through on promise relative to economic development.

It's hard to do reconstruction when the locals are trying to blow you up. See Iraq.

In fact much of Afghanistan, especially the north, is fairly safe. The international community has simply failed.

I doubt very much that withdrawl by those few countries with fighting troops on the ground would improve things.

I guess it would depend on your definition of "improve". Will they become "West friendly". Highly unlikely as the Taliban would in all probability return to power.

I think the Taliban returning to power would be disaster for 80% of Afghans, and an unmitigated disaster for about 50% of Afghans. And virtually the end of the world, for about 20% of Afghans.

Have you ever read The Kite Runner, by Khalid Husseini?

But keeping troops on the ground is certainly painful, and Afghanistan certainly must feel a lot more painful for folks for whom an increased commitment to Afghanistan is not a justification for drawdown in Iraq.

I'll be honest. I haven't a clue what your point is here.

Western troops are dying, its natural to want to get out. Body bags going back to Toronto and Vancouver. Here in the USA, theres no pressure to get out of Afghan, cause to the center left, Afghanistan is the "good war", the one thats being lost because the eevil neocons went into Iraq. The implicit (and sometimes explicit) arguement is made that one of the advantages of withdrawl from Iraq, is that we could increase the number of troops and other resources in Afghanistan where the "real" war on terror is being fought. In that context no one serious on the left of USA politics talks about Afghanistan the way many Canadians routinely do. I have little doubt, thought, that were it not for that historical quirk, thered be Americans complaining about the casualty toll in Afghanistan.

"All"? Why should we be responsible for any quite frankly? I/we owe Afghanistan nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Afghistan government harbored the people that attacked us (the West). Not the other way around.

You will take people in, whether you owe them anything or not, cause you always do. What do you owe the people of Somalia? That they suffered? The people of Afghanistan suffered as much. I also think we in the West owe them something for the fall of the USSR, and for our neglect in the years that followed, which led to the rise of the Taliban. But again, that may play differently in Canada than it does in the US.

That said, as I'm sure you know, Canada has had an extremely wide immigration/refugee door for a very long time now. I see no reason why Afghani's will be treated any different. We've already started as I can attest first hand. My local sub shop is Afghani owned and operated.

Thats what I was referring to.


We have lots of afghan owned businesses where I live, but they are mainly folks who left Afghanistan BEFORE 9/11. Some in fact went back to Afghanistan to rebuild it.