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Masked pro-Chavez gun men open fire on unarmed peaceful protesters.

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  • Masked pro-Chavez gun men open fire on unarmed peaceful protesters.

    This is sounding bad. Of course there is no way to tell, at this point, if the gun me were just a group of die hard Chavez supporters who didn't like other people peacefully protesting Chavez's move to remove all term limits on himself or if this was an actual attack using government forces disguised as civilians. I honestly hope these were just groups of wacko gun men.

    Gunmen fire on Venezuelan protesters

    CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- Gunmen opened fire on students returning from a march Wednesday in which 80,000 people denounced President Hugo Chavez's attempts to expand his power. At least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, officials said.

    Photographers for The Associated Press saw at least four gunmen -- their faces covered by ski masks or T-shirts -- firing handguns at the anti-Chavez crowd. Terrified students ran through the campus as ambulances arrived.

    National Guard troops gathered outside the Central University of Venezuela, the nation's largest and a center for opposition to Chavez's government. Venezuelan law bars state security forces from entering the campus, but Luis Acuna, the minister of higher education, said they could be called in if the university requests them.

    Antonio Rivero, director of Venezuela's Civil Defense agency, told local Union Radio that at least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, and that no one had been killed. Earlier, Rivero said he had been informed that one person had died in the violence.

    The violence broke out after anti-Chavez demonstrators -- led by university students -- marched peacefully to the Supreme Court to protest constitutional changes that Venezuelans will consider in a December referendum.

    The amendments would abolish presidential term limits, give the president control over the Central Bank and let him create new provinces governed by handpicked officials.

    The protesters demand the referendum be suspended, saying the amendments would weaken civil liberties in one of South America's oldest democracies and give Chavez unprecedented power to declare states of emergency.

    "Don't allow Venezuela to go down a path that nobody wants to cross," student leader Freddy Guevara told Globovision.

    Chavez, who was first elected in 1998, denies the reforms threaten freedom. He says they would instead move Venezuela toward what he calls "21st century socialism."
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    The Supreme Court is unlikely to act on the students' demands, given that pro-Chavez lawmakers appointed all 32 of its justices.

    Hundreds of National Guardsmen and police in riot gear were posted along the march route to prevent clashes between protesters and Chavez sympathizers, but they were restricted from entering the campus.
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  • #2
    well this does not sound good, but given his track record of not executing anyone following the failed coup, I would find it hard to believe that he would now sponsor murder of protestors...

    I would not be suprised that some of his poor supporters did it on their own though, as they see them as a threat to what they have got with Chavez and want to continue no matter what.
    Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
    GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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    • #3
      Ah, apologists.

      Indeed, who ever heard of a commie dictator purging dissidents.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes Winston, Your heros never did that...
        "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
          well this does not sound good, but given his track record of not executing anyone following the failed coup, I would find it hard to believe that he would now sponsor murder of protestors...
          Yeah. That's too far a stretch from shutting down independent media.
          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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          • #6
            let me see someone in US try a coup and not get executed as a traitor??? In EU they'd be in life for good, while in Venezuela they are walking away free and living in their mansions?!?

            Now it is also a fact that Chavez wants to ensure that his 21st century socialim stays alive, so he wants to alter the constitution, uses different means of control etc... but the point is that he is not a murderer on his CV just yet...

            and Winston, yes we in EU have propaganda too Chavez might be 50% commie, but he has a good track record so far so no need to put him in the "predefined" category. Once you get Venezuelans running away from there saying that the regime is killing them en masse (AFAIK borders are not closed down yet ) I don't think you have a case on that account. Now that the police should have protected the protestors more, that is a fact, but hey in US you had the racial riots relatively recently, and people were shot. What about France ... so this is not a racial, but it is a social conflict... makes no difference... you have two groups going against each other.

            Plus you had policemen trying to separate teh groups, so it was not really that they were left alone for thugs to murder them, or even better as our late Chineze friends did in 1987, drove over them with tanks... and it is not hard to imagine that there will be violent Chavez supporters as well, I just hope they get to jail just as well as anyone else.

            Last: "at least 8 people were injured, and at least one by gunfire" is not the face of your usual dictator dealing with the dissidentnts... I am sure there were a lot more hurt in the French riots recently, and I don't see anyone calling Chirac a tyrant around (OK maybe some do, but that is another story )
            Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
            GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DinoDoc
              Yeah. That's too far a stretch from shutting down independentUS mouthpiece media.
              Corrected
              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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              • #8
                You really can't help being an apoligist for dictators the world over so long as they are anti-US, can you?
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wait...
                  Gunmen opened fire on students returning from a march Wednesday in which 80,000 people denounced President Hugo Chavez's attempts to expand his power. At least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, officials said.


                  They 'injured' one person? Either this is a straight out lie (where does this number come from, Chavez or anti-Chavez?) or this is blown way out of proportion. There's rather a difference between "firing at" a crowd, in which case unless only one bullet was fired i'd imagine more than one person would be injured, or "firing above" or something else to discourage the crowd, which although pathetic is not really particularly bad.
                  <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                  I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Urban Ranger


                    Corrected
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by snoopy369
                      Wait...
                      Gunmen opened fire on students returning from a march Wednesday in which 80,000 people denounced President Hugo Chavez's attempts to expand his power. At least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, officials said.


                      They 'injured' one person? Either this is a straight out lie (where does this number come from, Chavez or anti-Chavez?) or this is blown way out of proportion. There's rather a difference between "firing at" a crowd, in which case unless only one bullet was fired i'd imagine more than one person would be injured, or "firing above" or something else to discourage the crowd, which although pathetic is not really particularly bad.
                      Game set match
                      "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by snoopy369
                        Wait...
                        Gunmen opened fire on students returning from a march Wednesday in which 80,000 people denounced President Hugo Chavez's attempts to expand his power. At least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, officials said.


                        They 'injured' one person? Either this is a straight out lie (where does this number come from, Chavez or anti-Chavez?) or this is blown way out of proportion. There's rather a difference between "firing at" a crowd, in which case unless only one bullet was fired i'd imagine more than one person would be injured, or "firing above" or something else to discourage the crowd, which although pathetic is not really particularly bad.
                        "Is not really particularly bad"? What would you say if someone did that in the US, especially if they actually hit someone?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                          "Is not really particularly bad"? What would you say if someone did that in the US, especially if they actually hit someone?
                          There'd be hue and cry in the media for a week or two, and then everything would go back to normal.
                          Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                          "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave


                            Once you get Venezuelans running away from there saying that the regime is killing them en masse (AFAIK borders are not closed down yet ) I don't think you have a case on that account.
                            Mass killings ?? NO -- The Chevez regime is more about taking ther money and the jobs from those that hold them and giving it to their cronies

                            The Venezuealan woman who works in the office next to me is afraid to go back. Even though she has an EU passport she says that under Ven. law she cannot renounce her Venezuelan citizenship and must use a Ven. passport ( apparently a new Chavez law that if you were born in Venezuala, you are not permitted to use any other passport in Venezuala). Her fear is that if she went back, she might get in and then not be allowed out again


                            -- although she did say that mainly what Chavez's people are doing is denying children the right to leave-- she has a friend who came to Canada but her 11 year old son is being denied the right to leave as well. Apparently the focus on the children is intentional since their model is Cuba. The idea is if you educate people in a system they believe in said system ( and yes I am aware the same argument will be made about Canada or the US by some people)


                            I know this stuff is anecdotal but my co-worker has family still in venezuala and is pretty aware of events there. I tend to believe her .. . Her stories of how it was to have unqualified Chavez cronies placed in positions of authority in some of the oil companies are hilarious-- It seemed the only qualification you need is loyalty to Chavez

                            There are worse governments out there, for sure, but evenif you happen to like Chavez, U think there can be little doubt that he is entrenching himself as a dictatorial regime
                            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kuciwalker


                              "Is not really particularly bad"? What would you say if someone did that in the US, especially if they actually hit someone?
                              Shooting in the air to stop a riot is not particularly bad, in my opinion. Ineffective and dangerous, probably, but it's not anything close to the level that the OP implies (firing into the crowd trying to injure/kill people).
                              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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