Laser vs Missile

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sandman
In long ranged space combat, a laser could miss, because it would be aiming at where the target was guessed to be. A sufficiently maneuverable target would have a good chance of avoiding it. Whereas a missile could correct itself as it approached.

Consider the range you'd need for a laser to possibly miss. Missiles would probably take hours to reach the target at that range.

If you had enough lasers, you could try and trap the target in a 'net' of lasers, by aiming at everywhere that it could possibly be. You'd need to be quite close, and also need to know the exact specifications of the enemy craft.

Dude, unless you're more than several light-seconds away, they can't dodge the laser.

(They can't deliberately dodge the laser anyway - it hits as soon as they see it. They can only constantly juke around to try and foil your aim.

[Impaler[WrG]]

And thats what they call "Evasive Manuvers", the greater your ships can accelerate the wider a sphere of probable locations you can be in when the laser hits. It would be like shooting a rifle at a ballon with a bird randomly flying around inside, the bigger the ballon and smaller the bird the less chance of a hit.

In some SF settings the missles are equiped with FTL drives making them far faster then the laser, this is rather reasonable, if they can build a drive system to move a shuttle sized ship FTL a minuturized version that moves a missle cant be that hard to build.

A sub-light speed missle would need to be super stealthy inorder to effectivly sneek up on its target and hit it without being destroyed by a close-range laser or anti-missle-missle defense system.

[Kuciwalker]

And thats what they call "Evasive Manuvers"

Whenever they say "evasive maneuvers" have you ever seen them juke around in random directions at ridiculous accelerations?

[Kuciwalker]

If a laser is within effective range and has a working targeting computer, it doesn't miss.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Lasers PEW PEW PEW! Missles FWOOSH!

I think this is a good bit of the point: Lasers aren't ever going to be that powerful, and it should be reasonably simple to shield against them. Missiles pack a lot more punch Any laser that is powerful enough to do real damage (or punch through reasonable shielding) will take a lot of time to charge up, and will take a large ship to support its power supply. After all, there's a reason we don't use lasers in combat now...

Kuci, while you're right that lasers will hit instantly, the targetting is not instant - you need to:
a) Determine the location of the target
b) Calculate the position when you are able to fire
c) Move the laser into position to fire
d) Decide to fire

None of those things happen at lightspeed, particularly the C) option.

[PLATO]

Let's not forget the Skipper Missile.

One of the most formidable weapon systems in the Kilrathi inventory is a Skipper
missile. It possesses a tremendous warhead which enables it to destroy almost any
size ship with a single hit. This includes all of the Confed fleet carriers. If it were
a simple torpedo, it would be bad enough, but the Skipper possesses the ability to
cloak itself, decloaking only momentarily in order to maintain its lock on a target.
Although it can be blown up with normal starfighter guns (a Skipper’s EM
signature is not large enough to enable a missile lock), it’s difficult to hit
something you can’t see. Thus, it’s only really vulnerable when it’s out of cloak.

[Kuciwalker]

Kuci, while you're right that lasers will hit instantly, the targetting is not instant - you need to:
a) Determine the location of the target
b) Calculate the position when you are able to fire
c) Move the laser into position to fire
d) Decide to fire

None of those things happen at lightspeed, particularly the C) option.

If you have a working weaponized laser, you aren't going to have any trouble with those steps either. And the computer can easily lead the steps so that it only has to make a very quick, minor correct at the end to be pointing at the ship (or where it's going to be) when the laser fires.

[Kuciwalker]

I think this is a good bit of the point: Lasers aren't ever going to be that powerful,

Why?

and it should be reasonably simple to shield against them.

wtf, no.

Missiles pack a lot more punch

Why?

Any laser that is powerful enough to do real damage (or punch through reasonable shielding) will take a lot of time to charge up

Why?

and will take a large ship to support its power supply.

Not necessarily.

After all, there's a reason we don't use lasers in combat now...

Because we haven't developed batteries with sufficient power density, or generators sufficiently small, to power them.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Because we haven't developed batteries with sufficient power density

This, imho, is the the most important thing that science can deliver in the next 100 years.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Kuci, while you're right that lasers will hit instantly, the targetting is not instant - you need to:
a) Determine the location of the target
b) Calculate the position when you are able to fire
c) Move the laser into position to fire
d) Decide to fire

None of those things happen at lightspeed, particularly the C) option.

If you have a working weaponized laser, you aren't going to have any trouble with those steps either. And the computer can easily lead the steps so that it only has to make a very quick, minor correct at the end to be pointing at the ship (or where it's going to be) when the laser fires.

You're assuming defensive technology does not keep up with offensive technology. That's a rather simplistic assumption.

a) Determining the location of the target: can be made very difficult by stealth technology (or advances beyond that). A laser can't adjust midroute so if you find out you were wrong you have to re-fire.

b) This can take a lot of processor power, and if we're talking high speed ships with high acceleration why should this be simple? Also, defensive screens make this more difficult, particularly if they can fluctuate at near-lightspeed also.

c) The hardest/slowest - a laser must be moved, physically, into position. Unless we make a laser that does not require any moving parts, this will always take time. When you're moving at extremely high speeds, this will always be a slowing element.

A missile that can adjust mid-flight is faster in all of these categories, assuming it has good maneuvering engines.

[Whoha]

quote:
Missiles pack a lot more punch

Why?

Nuclear warhead. Also the fact that the damage will be spread around the ship, rather then just punching a nice neat hole through it.

But missiles can be shot down and lasers can't.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

I think this is a good bit of the point: Lasers aren't ever going to be that powerful,

Why?

and it should be reasonably simple to shield against them.

wtf, no.

Missiles pack a lot more punch

Why?

Any laser that is powerful enough to do real damage (or punch through reasonable shielding) will take a lot of time to charge up

Why?

and will take a large ship to support its power supply.

Not necessarily.

Make a real objection above instead of just "why"ing like a three year old and I'll discuss it.

After all, there's a reason we don't use lasers in combat now...

Because we haven't developed batteries with sufficient power density, or generators sufficiently small, to power them.

Indeed ... that was my point. I assume that offensive and defensive advances both occur, so this will still be a problem in the future.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Whoha

Nuclear warhead. Also the fact that the damage will be spread around the ship, rather then just punching a nice neat hole through it.

But missiles can be shot down and lasers can't.

Certainly true, which is why the best weapon is the A-wing concussion missiles fired from directly behind the enemy fighter No chance to be shot down.

Laser screens can block a missile, but you don't necessarily need a direct impact to have an effect - large explosions have shock waves that can be very effective as well (and EMP effects, which mean more shielding is necessary, and if you break through some of that shielding...)

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Lasers PEW PEW PEW! Missles FWOOSH!

PCCHHH PCCCHHH PCCHH, shields holding! SWIISSHH, countermeasures fooled teh missile!

[Dr Strangelove]

The cohesion of laser light is not perfect. In the 1970s there was an experiment conducted by one of the Apollo Moon missions. A laser beam was sent from Earth to the moon and the width of the beam was measured. The beam had spread out considerably, I've forgotten by how much. If the beam spreads out the energy of the beam will also be spread out and its ability to melt through the hull of the enemy craft will be reduced.

IIRC in the Star Trek universe both phasers and photon torpedos travel faster than light. Phaser beams allegedly phase in and out of subspace. Photon torpedos travel at warp speeds.