My daily outrage:[10/25/07] Extending prison sentence for a minor offender

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Vesayen
he clearly had no parental influence in his life.

Not much indeed, mostly absent father, and druggie mother, the Crips were his family.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
He knew what he was getting into with violence and weapons. In his previous criminal and gang activity, he had already seen 2 or more people killed, and several wounded.

I meant he may not be aware what he was getting into when he filed the appeal, that it could go against him.

However he was 12 and had no parents caring about him, apparently involved with drugs since he was 8. He could not have appreciated the consequences or the meaning of his act at the time.

Originally posted by Dis
and what does the fact he's black have anything to do with this case?

don't pull the black card unless you can prove some racism in this case.

That black people are descriminated against in our court system, intentionally and unintentionally, especially in the south.

[Lefty Scaevola]

The Judge in the case, Andy Mireles, like the majority of judges and elected officials in this county, was Hispanic. San Antonio ain't the south, its in the Southwest. If you imagine you can find any Black political or communty leader hereabouts that has any thought abouts gangbangers more kindly than get them all out of my community by whatever means available, good luck.

[Wezil]

How does US society manage to create these offenders which such shocking regularity? Gang banging at 9!

[Vesayen]

Descrimination comes in many forms. I don't claim any direct racism here or conspiracy.

Classism would of been better. The poor can't afford good legal council.

I read that article about the guy now....

7 siblings, surrounded by violence and drugs, the damn guy was basically trained from birth to be a piece of ####. Are you shocked he turned out to be?

The only people who gave a #### about him was a criminal organization, with no real education and no positive influences in his life, is it suprising he emulated and felt loyal to them?

And ontop of all of that, the kid had been drinking and smoking Mrs. Mary when he robbed the cab....

Hell to add to it, his "uncle" was the one who called the cab and asked him if he wanted to rob it.... it is not like he went out of the blue and decided to rob one.

12 year old kid with nothing but criminal influences in his life, drunk, high, shoots someone? Yeah, he was sure responsible for his actions, fully rational, fully accountable just like a rational well adjusted adult eh?

[Wezil]

You talkin' to me? /De Niro

[Jon Miller]

I agree that is a shame that he turned out bad, and that society is primarily at fault for him being bad. But it doesn't change the fact that he is bad, nor mean that he should be back in society causing harm to others.

JM

[Vesayen]

Putting a person in prison as retribution is barbaric and immoral.

Putting a person in prison for the purpose of protecting society, I am not happy about, but is sadly neccesary.

Likewise, putting a person in prison to act as deterance is another sad neccesity of our world-our society could not function without it.

Putting a person in prison to try to reform them, is the best person to take away their liberty.

The kid was 12 damn years old. Given the right enviroment, they might of been able to "fix" him. They sent a child to prison.

I just read that entire 9 page story about the guy.... my heart breaks reading it.

[Jon Miller]

I don't see anything wrong with results (as you are saying 'retribution'). Normal results is if someone kills me freind, I and some of my other freinds go and kill that person.

This doesn't help society out, and so instead of having these normal results, we have a court system that tries to do everything neatly/properly. But it still should be giving results for the actions of people.

He might have been recoverable at 12 (might have been, I have doubts, you can be pretty screwed up by 12). He likely isn't recoverable now...

Now, I don't suggest DP, because I think people can recover (and with the unfairness in the court systems, we shouldn't do DP often). So even have the possibility of parole. But he currently he should be where he is. If he looks to recover, they should allow him out on parole (well, I guess that is in 4 years).

JM

[Vesayen]

It is hard to pick just one quote.... all of it is pretty moving, but if I had to point to one thing and say "aha".... well, here we go:

At TYC, all the kids attend school, participate in group and, as needed, take part in special programs such as "intensive resocialization." Teachers, shrinks and staffers are on hand to provide one-on-one care. "We've got to treat them," explains TYC court liaison Leonard Cucolo, who would testify at Debrow's court hearing. Cucolo wouldn't comment specifically on Debrow's case, but he explained the system's obligation to treat every kid, whether he's a sheep or a psychopath. "We're responsible for them until they're 17 1/2 under the old law. If a youth comes in at 12 and is a behavior problem, we can't go back to the court until that time."

Debrow, however, had a problem that the vast majority of his fellow charges didn't share--a determinate sentence that could extend into middle age if need be. He was surrounded by kids with sentences of just a few months, kids who could see a way out. He saw none. As his friend Carvae, who also had a determinate sentence, wrote in a letter, "At 12 years old, we were nothing but babies trying to be somebody. We've never had a car, house, wife, kids, nothing in our name but a murder case. To this day we deal with the fact that if we was to die in here we lived no life."

[Jon Miller]

So?

JM

[Jon Miller]

I mean, a bad judgement might have been made. But nothing you have posted as suggested that such is the case.

JM

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Vesayen

That black people are descriminated against in our court system, intentionally and unintentionally, especially in the south.

Quite true. On the whole someone who murders a black person is likely to get a lesser sentence than would someone committing a comparable crime against a white person.

How often do cabbies pickup kids? If I were a cabbie I'd have to figure that the kid was less likely to have the fair. The kid probably shot the one cabbie in town nice enough to stop for a kid needing a ride, or maybe the cabie knew him and thought it was OK.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Wezil
How does US society manage to create these offenders which such shocking regularity?

Drugs. I have seen young violent felons with every type of social background, every type of family background, every type of economic background including multimilloinaire, (each, of course, with much weight to to bad/poor end) every type of everything ecept for ONE common element, all were habitual drug users. By far the worst for creating career criminals happens to be a poor persons high, solvent/paint sniffing. I had two of those as clients, they were pure sociopaths who would never be reformed. I guaran-damn-tee that they would be committing crimes anytime they were not incacerated. I got both of them off VERY light. There were many years here when the typical low level prosecutors were well outgunned by randomly appointed counsel for indigents. That ended when the first republican since reconstruction was elected district attorney.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
How often do cabbies pickup kids? If I were a cabbie I'd have to figure that the kid was less likely to have the fair.

It was a kid and an adult. The adult criminal did not carry weapons. This 12 year old had already, by his own story, shot at least two persons during robberies. Despite his defense and spin, there was substantial evidence the the boy was the leader and the adult the acomplace.