You are pushed off a building and someone shoots you on the way down.....

[DinoDoc]

Could I land on someone asking a stupid question?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Could I land on someone asking a stupid question?

In this place, I don't see how you could possibly avoid it.

[Winston]

The shooter should be given a medal for preventing a nasty death by falling, and displaying outstanding swiftness and marksmanship.

The pusher, after being made to clean up the mess on the sidewalk, should do time for attempted murder. Preferably in an undergound prison block so he won't try anything foolish.

The woman behind it all should not go on any Colombian game shows no matter how much money is involved.

[Wezil]

Nice summary of all (un)related issues Winston.

[Aeson]

I think the OP is culpable, because here he's outlining the crime... better edit that quick before it happens.

[Flubber]

Oh ya -- murder and murder-- They were in it together and just trying to confuse the issue

[Dr Strangelove]

In Virginia only one person can receive the maximum penalty for murder. If this went to a Virginia court the court would have to determine which injury, the fall or the gunshot wound was the ultimate cause of death. Presumably if you were shot through the heart, the brain, or a critical blood vessel like the aorta or one of the carotids then the shooter would receive the highest penalty. If you were shot somewhere not likely to be immediately fatal, like the stomach, lung or liver and there were injuries from the fall likely to be fatal then the person who pushed you off of the building would be held the more responsible.

A number of states, particularily in the South, have similar laws. The motivation for these laws stem from the Scottsdale incident. A southern woman was allegedly raped and murdered by several black men. Little effort was made to distinguish which one actually killed her and several of the men were executed. In response there was an outcry that this one person's life was not worth so many in exchange (not to mention that the state's primary evidence was testimony violently coerced from the men), and several southern states passed laws prohibiting the execution of more than one person for the murder of one victim.

Unfortunately this law works both ways. About ten years ago two drunken white men attacked a drunken black man. They beat him unconcious, then one of them put a tire soaked in kerosene around his neck and set it on fire. When the fire died out the second man cut the black man's head off. The court was unable to determine which injury killed the victim, so it was unable to ask for capital punishment for either.

[Wezil]

Except Texas of course.

[Flubber]

DR Strangelove

I do not believe in that law. IF 10 people all take turns shooting a victim in the extremeties and they bleed out and die, I don't care which shot finished them off.. I would want all of them to be liable for the highest available punishment

[DinoDoc]

I'd also like a link or something to the incident and its aftermath because it sounds like a pile o BS to me.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'd also like a link or something to the incident and its aftermath because it sounds like a pile o BS to me.

I'm getting tired of following you around DD.

The thread starter claimed it was a "hypothetical".

[DinoDoc]

Why would you thin I was talking about the OP when Dr. S's example is much more interesting?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why would you thin I was talking about the OP when Dr. S's example is much more interesting?

The thread title as you quoted no one else.

I got your back. Carry on.

[Blake]

What truly matters is intentions.

The pusher is guilty of murder.
The shooter, may or may not be.

He probably isn't, since I'd say it'd be pretty hard to deliberately shoot someone who is falling, meaning it's probably one of those bizarre accidents where he tries to shoot his wife, misses, and the bullet flies out the window and hits the falling person (of course in that case shooter is still guilty of bad intentions anyway...).

If it was deliberate and planned and involving excellent markmanship, the question is one of motivations.
He may have been motivated to inflict extra pain on the victim.
Or he may have been motivated to save the victim from pain. I doubt that actually hitting the ground at terminal velocity is more painful than being shot dead and the victim may have decided to enjoy his final moments in freefall rather than spend it in abject panic, I doubt the shooter could have made an informed decision on which was the case.
He could even have been motivated to try and give the pusher a little nudge into a window of the building - but I doubt that's possible (bullets just don't impart that much momentum).

So I question if the shooter could have justified good motivation, I mean sure he could RATIONALIZE it, but that rationalization may not actually be applicable to the victim.

If there was any conceivable chance that the victim could have survived, then the shooter is definitely guilty of murder also - by malice or delusion.

Pusher - definitely guilty.
Shooter - possibly guilty, definitely highly unusual and unreasonable behavior.

The actions of the shooter do not change the karmic dues of the pusher, at least if the pusher is ignorant of the shooter. The pusher may get some new karmic dues if he looks down and sees the victim get shot and is like "Awww! I wanted him to die by falling! Now I have to find someone else to push!". But the Karmic dues of the original shove are the same regardless of the shooter's actions.
The actions of the shooter do also have karmic dues, for he has strange intents and motivations, the nature of these karmic dues depends largely on whether the shooter thinks himself a murderer or not and he may have some shared Karma with the Pusher (ie Pusher might decide "Dammit! I'm going to find shooter and push him off too!")

What the law decides, is part of the karmic dues.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Flubber
DR Strangelove

I do not believe in that law. IF 10 people all take turns shooting a victim in the extremeties and they bleed out and die, I don't care which shot finished them off.. I would want all of them to be liable for the highest available punishment

Exactly.