History of Martial Arts 10-6-2007

[Grandpa Troll]

Before anyone jumps that this belongs in the Sports Forum, the reason I was suggesting it was here is because of the historical implications.

Briefly, many Warlords forbid certain forms of training and thus farmers and craftsman used the tools of their trades as weaponry.

Before expounding, would their be any interest in such a discussion?

I have practical hands on experience in Korean (Tae Kwon Do), Chinese (Teik-Soo-Chang) and Japanese (Oakinawan Isshin-ryû) styles and working knowledge of a few others.

Looking forward by the way if so.

Gramps

[General Ludd]

Capoeira - a martial art with a sense of humour.


Created by the black slaves of brazil.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Capoeira - a martial art with a sense of humour.


Created by the black slaves of brazil.

No kidding, I have the utmost respect for this art form.

in the game Tekken, I always chose Hwa Rang (Tae Kwon Do) or Eddie Gordo (Capoeira)

Seriously though, I will start some informational flow for a possible discussion in near future.

Gramps

[Zkribbler]

Then their was the Orkan art of Compliments.

"Hey, your teeth are bright. I bet you floss and well as brush."

(That's from an old Mork and Mindy show.)

[David Floyd]

Well, to mix things up a bit...

I think the past 15 years or so have shown that the only truly effective fighting style is one that combines submission grappling with a combat striking style, such as Muay Thai, or even boxing. Show me one top flight, sensei-level traditional martial artist who could get into the ring with someone like Chuck Liddell, Vanderlai Silva, Kazushi Sakuraba, Royce Gracie, or a number of others. Sakuraba and Gracie weren't/aren't really even strikers, but Gracie easily defeated a number of traditional martial artists (Kung Fu, Karate, and TKD styles) in the early UFCs, and Sakuraba in his prime was probably ahead of Gracie.

That isn't to say that traditional styles aren't valuable, or even effective, for the average person, just that when we are talking about effective FIGHTING styles, the top of the pyramid is a combined submission grappling/combat striking system.

OK, there's my pot stirring for a while

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Well, to mix things up a bit...

I think the past 15 years or so have shown that the only truly effective fighting style is one that combines submission grappling with a combat striking style, such as Muay Thai, or even boxing. Show me one top flight, sensei-level traditional martial artist who could get into the ring with someone like Chuck Liddell, Vanderlai Silva, Kazushi Sakuraba, Royce Gracie, or a number of others. Sakuraba and Gracie weren't/aren't really even strikers, but Gracie easily defeated a number of traditional martial artists (Kung Fu, Karate, and TKD styles) in the early UFCs, and Sakuraba in his prime was probably ahead of Gracie.

That isn't to say that traditional styles aren't valuable, or even effective, for the average person, just that when we are talking about effective FIGHTING styles, the top of the pyramid is a combined submission grappling/combat striking system.

OK, there's my pot stirring for a while

Well, you started it David, but years ago which was my introduction to MMA, UFC/Pride..and you!!!!!!

Now, I am here to say, your debated such that I researched and was simply overwhelmed with the training styles and techniques of these folks.

I concur, it would take a very superior instructor, no, not paper champions, but traditional hardcore fundamental martial arts instructors to even be considered to be able to compete...

I remember arguing with you and after having gone through one keyboard..

I was thoroughly convinced you were and are correct.

I have studied and yes used in and out of ring my training. In real life.

But after having watched many fighters am glad to say, you are correct.

I plan on adding to some of this conversation later in more depth.

But if anyone hasn't, they need to follow up and watch these athletes in action.

My compliments David, you made me a believer!!

Gramps

[David Floyd]

OTOH, you convinced me that many traditional styles can be effective methods of self-defense against 90% of people you might end up having to fight.

[Grandpa Troll]

/me hugs David..and whispers thank you....


I will post some Historical background, no Kung Foo Theatre, Hidden Tiger Crouching Dragon stuff, just real History

Gramps

[Grandpa Troll]

Weapons-Sickle or KAMA

KAMA (SICKLE)

History: In 1470, when traditional weapons were confiscated by the Japanese military, Okinawan commoners utilized the kama as a fighting blade, often attaching a chain to the base for greater reach. This longer weapon was known as a kusarigama.

Traditional use: The kama was originally used for cutting grass. In close range fighting, the sickle colid be used to trap an opponent's weapon, or for striking.

Current use: The kama is most commonly used in kata (forms) competition and demonstrations. The forms include circular movements which improve blocking and countering techniques.

[Grandpa Troll]

Weapons-NUNTE

NUNTE

History: Developed by Okinawan farmers, the multi-pronged nunte was usually placed on the end of a staff to form a spear, but it couid also be thrown, or handled as a dagger or mace.

Traditional use: In its most basic form, the nunte was a fishing tool. As a dagger or part of a spear, the nunte's center prong was used for striking, while its arms couid also catch and hold an opponent's weapon.

Current use: The nunte is now found most often in kata competitions and demonstrations, either in the hand or at the end of a staff.

[Grandpa Troll]

Weapons-Bo Staff

BO (staff)

History: The bo is one of the five weapons systematized by the early Okinawan developers of the style known as te (hand). In feudal Japan it was part of the bugei (early Japanese martial arts) and was used by samurai, priests, and commoners alike. Its sixfoot length made it an apt weapon against swordsmen, disarming the opponent while allowing the user to remain at a safe distance.

Traditional use: The bo evolved from poles balanced across the shoulders to carry water or other loads. As a fighting instrument, it allowed liocking and striking against a range of weapons.

Current use: Now part of the budo (martial ways), the bo is still used in kata performance. Physical conditioning with the bo improves balance and upper-body strength.



/me scores this as one of his three favorite weapons, for actual defense and training with!

[Grandpa Troll]

Weapons-Sai

SAI

History: Present in Okinawan and other Asian weapon arsenals, the sai (pronged truncheon) was used to stab, block, trap and punch. Practitioners often carried a sai in each hand, and a "spare"' at the belt. The weapon could also be thrown.

Traditional use: The sai is believed to have originated with the pitchfork. As a weapon, it was used in conjunction with various karate stances and techniques, and in defense against sword attacks.

Current use: With dulled points, the sai is now a karate training weapon. It tests accuracy in striking and quick block-and-counter techniques.


This in and of itself is one awesome weapon, for not only defensive, but also an offensive juggernaut causing very decent pinning opportunities

[Grandpa Troll]

Weapons-Tonfa

TONFA
History: The tonfa (side-handle baton) was developed as a weapon by the Okinawans, specifically for use in conjunction with karate. Two tonfa were often used simultaneously, and were very efficient against armed asailants.

Traditional use: Originally a bean or rice grinder, the tonfa's circular movements as a farm implement evolved into its rotating strikes as a weapon. The side of the tonfa was used for blocking, and the ends for direct punches.

Current use: Now an advanced karate training aid, the tonfa aids development of block-and-strike strategies and upper-body strength.

/me admits carrying one in Law Enforcement, commonly referred to as the Police Weaponry designated PR-24, something similiar to a nightstick with a handle attached. While not sanctioned, some came with a steel ball bearing imbedded in the tip, most excellent when striking, and this is also One of Gramps three Favorite Weapons

[Grandpa Troll]

Weapons-Katana

KATANA (traditional Japanese sword)
History: Developed after the bokken, the katana was the favored weapon of the samurai warriors and the most widely used Japanese sword. Drawn in a "sky-to-ground" manner, it was worn in the belt on the left side, edge upward.

Traditional use: Employed on foot or horseback as a thrusting weapon the katana was used in battle, competition and in ritual deaths.

Current use: The katana is now primarily a popular weapon for kata competition and demonstrations.

[Grandpa Troll]

Weapons-Nunchaku

NUNCHAKU
History: Developed in the 17th century by Okinawans after the Japanese gained occupation of their land, the nunchaku (flail) was one of many harmless looking weapons implemented at the time. The two equal sections were originally held together by horsehair and could be used against armed or unarmed assailants.

Traditional use: The nunchaku was originally an agricultural tool used for threshing grain. As a weapon, it was used in conjunction with various stances and techniques. The sticks could be used for spearing or striking, and the chain could choke, block, or trap.

Current use:The nunchaku is a popular weapon for demonstrations. It is also used as a weapon of self-defense by karate stylists and some law enforcement agencies

This weapon was made popular by bruce lee, more coomonly referred to as Numb Chucks.

I have competed with and trained with this, however, much practice is needed to be used in actual combat, like going out to a tree and practicing, because the nunchaku is extremely uncontrollable when glancing off an opponent.


To the act of defending oneself against an attack, try a handful of rocks, launching at an opponent while charging them, somewhat effective. In addition, a chain to help swing or even your belt to help ctahc when the user strikes.