Intellectual Property Rights: Piracy FTW :b: :b:

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
To take the next step, you couldn't buy a movie or music cd and have friends over to watch or listen to.
Hey, follow the dotted line of implication.

Allowing them to keep a copy is different..

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Kidicious


harming the producers and?

I know you can figure this out.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
i haven't stopped going to the movies or watching TV because i can download stuff.

Do you compensate the producers of the media you pirate in accordance to the value you receive from it?

and my actions are great to promote reform

The only reform your actions are promoting is the "reform" from relatively unobtrusive anti-piracy measures to more invasive **** like DRM...

i hope the media companies that promote and create todays content die out.

Then why do you even care about what they do? If they don't create something you think is of value, why steal it?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


I know you can figure this out.

What is to figure out? You make the claim you explain it. It doesn't hurt consumers at all. What's your argument so that I can show you wrong again.

[Wiglaf]

If you steal a producer's product, the producer loses money and may stop making that product. If he doesn't, he might start being a dick about selling his product, by incorporating aggressive anti piracy measures that piss off consumers, for example.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
If you steal a producer's product, the producer loses money and may stop making that product. If he doesn't, he might start being a dick about selling his product, by incorporating aggressive anti piracy measures that piss off consumers, for example.

If the producer stops making it fine the consumer can buy something else of save his money.

And why would a consumer that pays for the product be pissed off about anti-piracy measures?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Kidicious
And why would a consumer that pays for the product be pissed off about anti-piracy measures?

In your world it may be great fun to put a plastic disk into a drive every time you want to play a game. And if something happens to that disk, the risk of which is greatly increased because you have to use it every time you play the game, you may very well not be able play the game at all.

Or how about getting to punch in a 30 digit code into an installation, only to be told that that installation code has expired. So you get to call up and enter a 40 digit number into a phone, then talk for 15 minutes to some lady in India who can barely speak english as you explain to her why you replaced your CPU and MB and are now installing your copy of WinXP again. Then take a 30 digit code and input it back into your computer just so you can use it.

Or how about you download some music, pay for it, then get an upgraded player... which isn't going to let you use the music you've already paid for. Yay!

And you know what? You get to pay extra so those companies can provide those "services". Designing anti-piracy techniques, software, and chips isn't free. Call centers to check installation IDs don't just grow on trees. Someone gets to pay for it, and guess who that is?

This is what piracy does for the law abiding consumer. It gives corporations a justification for all this crap. And if you think that's not harmful, you're just an idiot.

[Zevico]

If I download 10 dozen movies, and delete them all, the movie industry will still claim that they lost money and will charge you extra for it.

Is it not the same for ten movies you buy and throw in the trash? Or ten movies you borrow and immediately return from a video library?

[DinoDoc]

Why are pirates such whiny little girls?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
In your world it may be great fun to put a plastic disk into a drive every time you want to play a game.

I feel your pain.

That's like saying robbers hurt property owners because they have to push a button on their alarm.

And you know what? You get to pay extra so those companies can provide those "services". Designing anti-piracy techniques, software, and chips isn't free. Call centers to check installation IDs don't just grow on trees. Someone gets to pay for it, and guess who that is?

That's where you are wrong the price on copyrighted material is completely driven by demand. That's what copyrighting does. You have to pay a high price because no one else can sell it.

[snoopy369]

Meh, piracy advocates never are convinced that they're stealing, because that would mean they're bad people. Nobody wants to believe that they're a bad person

Potential income is a meaningful economic term. If you're not able to understand it, go take macro economics 101.

Sharing is stealing just as much as selling for profit is.

In order to have this argument, one must define terms. Merriam Webster Law Dictionary defines "to steal" as "to take or appropriate without right or consent and with intent to keep or make use of".

X downloads an MP3 from a shared site. X has appropriated said MP3. X has no right to said mp3. X intends to keep or make use of it (listen to it once). Therefore, X has stolen said MP3.

The important thing to note here is that, legally, stealing does not take the target into account. You could argue the moral issue - it might be morally worse to deprive another of the use of something while simultaneously using something you have no right to - but it is stealing nonetheless. Non-legal definitions still contain this same phrasing - excluding the original owner from the definition entirely, focusing on the one who is stealing. (Dictionary.com's first and second definitions for 'to steal' in its 'major' dictionaries, for a couple of examples.)

Further, an apt example is a condo owner. Let's say Y owns a condo. Y owes $300 a month in assessments, which go to pay for the night watchman, the desk attendant, and the gardener.

If Y does not pay the assessment, is Y stealing? Is Y morally wrong? Even if Y would rather have not had the gardener if he had to pay him?

Yes, Y is clearly stealing. Y enjoyed the services of the three workers, even if Y would have not paid for them otherwise and would happily have not had them in the first place. The three workers came to their employment with the understanding that they would be paid as a result; Y not paying them is stealing from them, even though he took nothing from them, and even though he would have been happy for them not to have come.

Similarly, the music companies (and the artists) are losing money that they have a right to, even if you "would not have bought it anyway". If you don't want to buy it, then don't - just don't listen to it at all. That's the choice, you see - you either think it is worth the $15 to buy the CD, or you don't listen to it.

Do you not see how that equation shifts once you're able to obtain it for free? Sure, you still "buy movies and cds". Certainly. But, exactly how many CDs did you listen to for free and not buy, that you would have bought had you not had the 'free' option? You will say "none" more than likely, but I believe that is not true - if not for you, then for 99.9% of people who download music. It is a utility curve plain and simple, and that utility curve shifts if you are able to obtain the items for free.

To be honest, I don't much care if you steal music. I'm not the sort to believe other people must follow my moral code or behave themselves as I would. If you all did, it would be a boring world, Budweiser would be out of business, and I'd probably shoot myself out of the boredom.

But don't pretend it's not stealing. That's demeaning the artists and the people who actually do actual work to give you those CDs and DVDs. Steal, lie, cheat, whatever - but be honest with yourself and with the world about what you're doing. Nothing is worse than a hypocrite, except for one that lies to himself.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why are pirates such whiny little girls?

Are you joking? Aeson is whining because he has to put a disk in a drive.

[DinoDoc]

Kid: Siro is teh little girl throwing the temper tantrum in this scenario.

[Ming]

Now come on... discuss the topic and NOT the posters.

[DinoDoc]

Which one of the threads on this exact subject would you like the discussion in?