Fighting poverty in the digital age: Poor man's donations based credit card

[Sirotnikov]

Israel has tons of charities that collect donations of food and distributes them to families and people in need.

The donations 'market' in Israel is really big, and thousands of volunteers participate in the food distribution project.

Well now, one of the charities has decided to upgrade its services. Instead of requiring poor people to stand in a huge line to get the donations in charity run logistics centers, they will give out "credit cards".

The cards are accepted in several of Israel's large shopping networks, and can be used to purchase food products only (no alcohol or cigarettes).

Instead of having the charity run a huge logistics operations, they are shifting to running a detailed accounting of donations, and its distribution across the donation receivers accounts. Every receiver will have a different amount he could spend, according to different criteria.

They say it would allow donors more control of their money, making it possible for people to target any specific slice of population they want (elderly, single moms, young children etc).




This sets up a sort of a private form of (donated) social security. I'm not sure if it is a good precedent in terms of what the state will do.

But it is a very wise move, because they can't always rely on tons of volunteers that they need to get the logistical work done.

There's always a surge of volunteers during holiday seasons, but they have shortage in other times. And logistical expenses cost money anyways, so that amount is saved.

[Zkribbler]

I hope they mean debit card and not credit card.

It's really a cool idea. It'd be a easy way to check if the money is going for food and rent or for alcohol and plastic jewelry.

[Pekka]

Good idea but has few problems.

1) they still become black market goods even if you can't go to stores and buy booze with it. It can be traded.

2) The social kind of "you have to be here" would go away. While standing in line might not be the ideal way to spend your day, you're at least in a group of people and maybe you're interacting or something like that. Who knows, but you at least show up somewhere regularly. Good for control.

3) Smelly people in stores. You expect me to shop when people with no money come there and smell next to me? Siro please! (just kidding! - I'd never shop there to begin with -. hahaha!½9

[Japher]

way to encourage the weak and lazy

if there is no incentive to go out and be productive than why would you?

[Sirotnikov]

It'd be a easy way to check if the money is going for food and rent or for alcohol and plastic jewelry.

the shopping networks computer is hardcoded against that.
I guess it is not really funds that are traded but rather some sort of score, that is later refunded by the charities. So the shopping centers aren't dumb.

they still become black market goods even if you can't go to stores and buy booze with it. It can be traded.

yes.
but packets of rice can also become black market goods.

Who knows, but you at least show up somewhere regularly.

wouldn't standing in line in a normal supermarket be more normality than standing in line in a shelter?

Smelly people in stores. You expect me to shop when people with no money come there and smell next to me? Siro please!

they are not all teh smelly.

some of them are not dirt poor, but most of their money goes on bills (yes, including water bills for showering), so they can afford very little food.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Japher
way to encourage the weak and lazy

if there is no incentive to go out and be productive than why would you?

first of all lets not mix together the weak and the lazy.

the lazy should work.

the weak can not.

[Eli]

That's... weird. I'm not sure what to think of this.

Standing in line for food is pretty humiliating. People will do almost everything before resorting to it. But when all you have to do is get a free debit card... Well, maybe now you can reduce the amount of overtime you do. Going into a shiny office and signing up for a card is far less humiliating than a food line.

So while those who absolutely need the charity will have their lives become easier, you will get more people who use the system but can manage without it.

[snoopy369]

It sounds like AFDC in the states, but private... 'food stamps' so to speak (we use cards also now for most programs). Lots of fraud there of course.

People abuse the system no matter what, but I don't think this will increase it necessarily ... it might make it easier for people to stay on it (so you need to couple it with things to get people off of it, job training, incentives, etc.), but overall people mostly prefer to make a living wage themselves most of the time (pride is internal more so than external); and as long as this isn't a comfortable amount, and is not a guaranteed amount, I think you won't see that too much.

[Pekka]

Well despite the problems this would have, I still think it's a good idea.

I don't think we shoudl necessarily be controlling all these people with no money "for their own good". I think it's hypocricy. We should either give them the ... ways (money, card, stamps, goods etc) so they can get the stuff they need or we shouldn't give them anything at all because they'll spend it on booze anyway etc.

If I'm giving them an apple "there you go old man, get your belly full", I might sleep better but meh... it's not doing any good really. And if it's about not giving them anything and giving them a litlte but letting them have some respectability about it and not all humiliating and stuff I say let them have a little and let their shining decision making process shine again. But I'm still for the money. I think we're wasting money on more stupid things anyway.