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Mycenaean Chariot

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  • Mycenaean Chariot

    Hello
    The Mycenaeans occupied most of Greece form the 17th century BC to the 12th century BC.
    One of there most effective weapon was the chariot.
    The Mycenaean chariot suffer an evolution thorough the period; one of those chariots was the dual chariot, that used two warriors.: a driver and a fighting man.
    There is much controversy has were the driver wore armour or whether the fighting man was a archer or a spearman.
    In this illustration we chose to portray the driver unarmoured and the fighting man as a spearman, although we must admit that it could have been different.
    This chariot was used in the 16th century BC.


    Best regards
    ILLUSTRATION GALLERY at
    http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpos...o/default.aspx

  • #2
    The controversy should be about where in Greece you could effectively use a chariot in combat. It's an incredibly hilly and mountainous country. Not at all like Egypt and Mesopotamia where these things excel.

    Comment


    • #3
      And two technical comments. The mechanism that chariots used for absorbing shocks is very important and I would like to see it in more detail. It would be impossible to aim in a chariot that had no amortisation, yet there were no springs back in the day. How was that solved?

      Another thing is the horse harness. Is the one in your image true to the one actually used? There were different ones used through the ages, first those that transferred more weight to the horse's neck, then those transferring more to the horse's breast/shoulders.

      Don't take that as criticism, I'm just thinking out loud. Nice image overall

      Comment


      • #4
        Just curious, I'm a gfx guy myself, and so I'm always interested in the technical details. How do you make these pics, traditionally on paper, then scanning them (from the sig it looks like this) or with some gfx software.
        Blah

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        • #5
          Well, it looks like the wheels were done in a 3D program, and perhaps the rest of the chariot too.

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          • #6
            Yeah. If the horses were also done in 3d I'd have to say they're excellent (I mean they look good anyway, but modeling and texturing something like them in 3d is quite a task). But the two warriors don't look like made from 3d models.
            Blah

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            • #7
              Originally posted by VetLegion
              It would be impossible to aim in a chariot that had no amortisation, yet there were no springs back in the day.
              How well do you have to aim? You have a big body of chariots, you use your mobility to come in fairly close (though still out of range of melee weapons) you loose a vast number of arrows on clumped infantry, then you pull back for the next pass. No?

              If the infantry doesnt clump, but spreads out to make a more difficult archery target, you run them over, using the chariots for shock. When they finally develop good enough infantry weapons that even relatively small groups of infantry can take you down, then you give up on the chariots.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for. Martin Buber

              Comment


              • #8
                Shooting while stopped would work as a tactic. The reason I am mentioning shock absorbing is because those wheels are made of wood (no rubber) which means that those driving in the chariot would feel literally every pebble they crossed over well enough to remember it

                I remember reading about suspension being made from leather among other things. This provided some amortisation. However, it was sensitive to moisture. One theory has it that the reason Egyptians couldn't pursue Israelites further than Red Sea was because the leather in their chariots' wheels and suspension got wet and lost mechanical properties, in essence the chariots fell apart.

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                • #9
                  Hello
                  Trying to answer some of the question raised here:
                  the use of the chariot is also, indeed, one of the controversies surrounding the chariot in Greece: was it use by spearmen (as a cavalry charge), was a missile platform or was it a "battle-taxi" used only to transport warriors to and form the battlefield?
                  I use a 3d program to do the chariot then imported it to Photoshop where I had scanned the horses and human figures and painted all of it.
                  Best regards
                  More replies later on
                  ILLUSTRATION GALLERY at
                  http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpos...o/default.aspx

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IIRC the Celts used some sort of rope webbing for shock absorption, suspending the riding cart. Perhaps the Mycenaeans did also.
                    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                    • #11
                      The wheels would be covered with a metal ring, (althought I did not represent it) to help mantian their strenght.
                      As for shock absorbants I do not know what the Mycenaeans used...
                      ILLUSTRATION GALLERY at
                      http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpos...o/default.aspx

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The "unarmored" man has a longsword. The Myceans did not have longswords, they did not even exist at the time.

                        Likewise, the harness used on the horse seems REALLY iffy, I do not think harnesses of that style existed then. Way to similar to modern harnesses. Might sound stupid but certain sorts of harnesses for horses are a big technological step, if it was simple and obvious then plows would of been invented far earlier. He should have a shortsword, a spear, or perhaps javelins.

                        Pictures and drawings I have seen of chariots from the period usually have the driver in the middle with a 3 man team, or on the far right. I do not know why this is, or if it is historically accurate.

                        Nitpicking is fun! Just kidding heh. Nice artwork though.
                        Last edited by Vesayen; October 3, 2007, 00:35.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello
                          Vesayen: The term longsword used must not confuse us: this is not the longsword of medieval times; it is in fact a type of sword of this period (perhaps even a little earlier).
                          the harness for the horses are based on the art the Mycenaean left us; as such it can be not very accurate or lacking some elements; only by practical experiments could we replicate the type of harness needed for this chariot.
                          Thank you for your reply and comment on my work.
                          Best regards
                          JP Vieira
                          ILLUSTRATION GALLERY at
                          http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpos...o/default.aspx

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Chariots were generally used primarily as battlefield taxis. Warriors didn't fight from them, but instead were transported to the enemy's flank or rear and dropped off. Mounted spearmen would probably have made shorty work of them and I believe that in fact that when cavalry made its appearence chariots disappeared.
                            "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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                            • #15
                              The disappearance of chariots was more of a consequence of the desegregation of many states and their centralized organization that permitted to maintain such an expensive force.
                              Of course, after some of those states recovered the use of the horse was seen in a different more practical way (as mounts for the cavalry).
                              ILLUSTRATION GALLERY at
                              http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpos...o/default.aspx

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