Dale Carnegie Help Me... please

[Japher]

Dale Carnegie is the author of "How to Wind Friends, and Influence People" and subsequent courses on such topics. It is a great book, and you should read it. Right now I am having an issue following his advice because I am annoyed.

I hate explaining myself. If I want to do something a certain way it's because I see an intrinsic need for. My whole education, life, professional career has been about optimization, effectiveness, efficiency, and robustness. I see the best way to do certain things, implement it, and then sit around putting put fires via the systems I've set up. I'm not good at a lot of things, and I know this, but what I am good at I know too, and for the most part so does everyone I work with/for/around. All, that is, but one person.

[don't read this if you don't want detail]
This person 'controls' our documentation. Technically, they review the documentation for completion, because of this they feel that they own the documents and therefore can't be changed without their permission. My dilemma; the documents suck! They record everything we do, an because of which we need to make sure accountability is there. We need to be able to look at this document and know everything that happened and the state of everything the way it is now. This person tells me that there is other documents that do this. Problem with that is a) there is not, and b) those that are there move with the batch (meaning that once the equipment is done doing what it is suppose to, the documents disappear, for all intents purpose).

What I need is for accountability for the equipment to stay with the equipment and accountability for the process to move with the process... This doesn't happen, and because of this there are problems, lots of problems.

[start reading again if you didn't want detail]

Anyway, now this person is back from maternity, during which I made a lot of changes to documents she is responsible. Behind her back, somewhat, but needed and appreciated, and makes my life easier with little impact on hers. She, however, is going behind my back to change it back. She can't do this without my permission and I know she'll try to strong arm me. On top of it, she went to another department to get certain facts to support her side. However, the fact she got are irrelevant.

Question: how do I get what I want? Preferably without explaining myself, since only a mind meld would be able to do that effectively.

[SpencerH]

Anyone with a name like "Dale Carnegie" is not to be taken seriously. I mean, come on. Next you'll be telling me that the descendents of irish moonshiners are one of the most powerfull political families in America.

Oh wait!

Anyway, "Dale Carnegie". Gotta be a poof eh?

[Pekka]

Kick her in the baby popping machine and tell her to make you some coffee, pronto.

Well if she is responsible for the documents, I think this is going to be your problem basically. THe way I see it, she is very protective over this issue, it's most likely a question of the little authority she has. It makes her feel important and she will keep to it.

SO basically you can't be an ******* if you want to solve this. It's just not going to work. It will most likely have the opposite reaction, and even if it doesn't, she will hurt her feelings even if she doesn't show it.

I'd say find what motivates her and take that route. Social acceptance? Money? Power? .. Uhmm, I guess this route isn't that good either.

Whatever you do, you have to acknowledge that you respect what she does and that she does a good job with it too (even if she doesn't). And not in a patronizing way or "I want something from you" way. Don't make it too obvious. Make it friendly and comfortable.

Since you can't establish effective authority over her, your persuation methods are limited. Is she rational? Is the methodical? If so, then appeal to her logic. Find a way to do that. I don't see other ways to persuade her, except possibly appealing her emotional side. Let her know your situation and that you need help and she can help you, and you'd really appreciate it and it wouldn't be forgotten either, meaning that you are willing to help her with something etc.

Or something in these lines. Or kick her in the stomach. Hard.

[SlowwHand]

Is there a written departmental procedure written for your area? Could that not be added?

[Japher]

Let her know your situation and that you need help and she can help you, and you'd really appreciate it and it wouldn't be forgotten either, meaning that you are willing to help her with something etc.

That's good advice

You are right in that she is clamping down on the little power she has, and her proactive approach to this is obvious.

The big problem I have with many people like this is they bar you from getting what you want, but give you no options. It's all non-constructive and because of this non-productive.

I wish there was a departmental procedure for this, as it saves our butts elsewhere. However, if you are looking at changing a document, then procedures are going to be changed too.

The approach I will try is that I will undo what I've done if she can HELP me figure out a better way to do it, and use the fact that when I did it she was gone and I had no idea what I was doing. Even though I knew what I was doing, and that the reason I did it while she was gone is because I knew she'd be a pain. This way she'll be the all powerful hero, and implement her idea. Which, to me is no big whoop, I just want action.

Something I have learned the last 3 years or so; the best way to achieve power is to relinquish control. Most people hold the mindset that in order to be powerful you must have control. However, the same people who think this will also think that those who give up control must have power or they would fight for the control. Look at CEOs, or corp execs... all the do is delegate. I don't care for control, I care for results.

[-Jrabbit]

1. Do you two have a mutual boss?
2. Does your method of documentation/version control/whatever make her job in any way more difficult?

Knowing nothing about what you do for a living, nothing about the structure of your work hierarchy, my off the cuff reaction is this:

Find a way for the changes you made to be praised to high heaven, but in a way that credits her department. Best is to get a third party to talk about how much this new method is great for protecting the whole company in unpredictable situations, just a superior process, blah blah.

The key is you not taking credit for it, but making her the hero. It's the price of peace, and could actually turn her into an ally in the future. What you're doing is playing the "team player" card. If she's smart, she'll jump on that bandwagon while taking the credit.

I'm not a big fan of what you did -- mostly because you didn't seem to have a plan for the inevitable conflict. So you've got to make lemonade.

Just some random thoughts to keep the discussion moving. God, I'm so glad I don't work in corp world anymore...

[SlowwHand]

Tell her, this is what I need to see. How should I do, or ask you to do it? Whatever you say, woman. Say the word.

[-Jrabbit]

Good advice, Pekka. Well, except maybe for the kicking part...

[Tiamat]

She could possibly have been afraid of loosing her position while on leave. Not saying she's right, but reverse the tables if you had to go on leave for whatever reason and came back and things had been changed it might make you worry about your job and if someone was trying to work their way into your position. Best thing to do like above, find someway to include her, get her advice, act like there's something you can't quite get and maybe she could help you etc...get her on your side to your way of thinking as diplomaticaly as possible. Catch more flies with honey then vinegar.

[Lancer]

Tell her the baby is YOURS!

[Lancer]

Actually that's bad advice. Instead, consider that for the next year or so everything she does, every thought she has, will be weighed in the balance as to whether its good for the baby. So, when you talk to her say like this:

"Listen, I want you to change this paragraph from 'blah blah blah' to 'yadda yadda yadda', do it for the baby."

For her, operating on a chemical level at this point more than an intelectual level, this will be irresistable.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

A more confrontational, but potentially effective strategy:

Call a Documentation Requirement Review meeting of everyone who needs the documentation to be whatever it needs to be. The purpose of the meeting would be for everyone to discuss what they need from the documentation, and why. Make sure your problem person is there. What will happen is that, organically, a broad-based consensus for your way of doing things will be articulated publicly, by lots of people, in front of her. Then, in the future, when you tussle, you can say "well, you'll remember from our meeting that everyone agreed blah blah blah." Turn it from a tug-of-war between you two into her-versus-the-good-of-the-company; it'll be a lot harder for her to stand her ground.

[Pekka]

Good stuff.

Basically you have 3 ultimate routes.

1) You'll get her to cooperate with you, meaning that she WANTS to help you.

2) You FORCE her to help you.

3) You get rid of her.

Option 3 should be out, 2 is not a very good one and requires you establishing firm authority OR forcing with the threat of option 3. FOr example finding mistakes in her tasks and being willing to complain about it. Finding out things about her and holding her hostage for it. This is difficult because it's a risk, unpredictable etc. Plus it's not necessarily very ethical.

So to me it's obvions option 1. Just break it down how you could influence her. It falls into the domain of persuasion if you want to have her cooperating with you. To have her help you for example one strategy is to make your problem seem very big and impossible for you, and her reason to help you common sense, and then the for the reasons she wouldn't help you just so petty, that it makes her feel guilt if she doesn't help you and then feed on that guilt.

For example, find out why she won't help you now. Is it a.. administrative thing or what. If it's basically a rule, then you should find out first what she could do to still keep it within the rules to help you. You can then merely suggest that she CAN help if she wants to, and make her understand the bind you're in and how much you can appreciate it if she takes one for the team. And definitely one for the team, so she feels she is part of the team even though she knows you have been having problems and that it's prolly not true.

So this would be an outline for persuading her using her guilt and common sense. You can go for all kinds of combos, but definitely plan everything first. Don't just go and wing it, you prolly have one chance to get it right so... just make sure you get it right, and if you don't get it right, make sure you didn't threaten her and that you leave her thinking you're in good terms anyway. This shouldn't happen, if she feels guilt. If she knows she CAN help you but she just won't, and that she would help you so much but now you're stuck because she won't get creative, well..... just appeal, don't beg though.

And find out the rules about this thing from her POV!! Otherwise you aren't going to connect that much necessarily. For example, "I know you can't...." ".... but if it would be possible to do it like this..." so you're already appealing to her common sense. IF she agrees that it IS possible, she is being unreasonable with you if she denies this. This also means she feels that you understand her problems and that you appreciate it. It's like you're empathizing with her. Then you can also fight a bit if she denies... like "BUt would it be possible to do it like this, in theory?". If it is, then you can make it a personal issue. If it is possible, you can turn back later and keep on trying. If it's "not possible even that way", then you can fight that issue. Why not? Why is it not possible? What if you would find out for her some other way, would she help?

Stuff like that, just don't put an end to the discussion too fast. Leave it open, it's an open ended situation, or should be. Make sure you can come back to her even if she denies you at first. Make sure she understands that she can help you if she wants to. And it's not necessary to tell her that she will create a problem with you if she don't help, that's trivial. There's no need to point it out, make her feel guilty about that too.

[SpencerH]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Japher

The approach I will try is that I will undo what I've done if she can HELP me figure out a better way to do it, and use the fact that when I did it she was gone and I had no idea what I was doing.

Big mistake there. Negotiate from strength not weakness. Show her what you've done, why you did it, and the what effects it's had. Try to bring her onboard with "there's always room for further improvements" but be clear that you're not going back to the old way.

Something I have learned the last 3 years or so; the best way to achieve power is to relinquish control. Most people hold the mindset that in order to be powerful you must have control. However, the same people who think this will also think that those who give up control must have power or they would fight for the control. Look at CEOs, or corp execs... all the do is delegate. I don't care for control, I care for results.

Did you pick that up from the democrat manifesto on how to deal with threats to this country?

I think what you're trying to say is that you find that a permissive management style works best for you (so far).

[Japher]

I'm not a big fan of what you did -- mostly because you didn't seem to have a plan for the inevitable conflict. So you've got to make lemonade.

Yeah... well...

Call a Documentation Requirement Review meeting

Yeah, that won't be over stepping the boundary. She's already pissed that I did something in a way she doesn't lie, what about I call everyone's attention to it? I think that will only cause more friction.

And find out the rules about this thing from her POV!!

Good advice. My current view is that she doesn't like what I did because it makes a tiny bit more work on her part. When I first started here I asked that all log books contain times of equipment activity, since this would help immensely in torubleshooting and process optimization. She said no, and that was that. I pressed and got attitude. Anything, IMO, that makes more work for here no matter how much it will help the actual process isn't going to happen. But I could be wrong.

Negotiate from strength not weakness. Show her what you've done, why you did it, and the what effects it's had. Try to bring her onboard with "there's always room for further improvements" but be clear that you're not going back to the old way.

I'll try.