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Double bill thread: Hot investment tip + Laugh at Cameron

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  • Double bill thread: Hot investment tip + Laugh at Cameron

    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


    The government is to blame for the crisis at Northern Rock, Conservative leader David Cameron has said.
    Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, he accuses Prime Minister Gordon Brown of presiding over a huge expansion of public and private debt.

    The government should explain what led to Northern Rock needing support from the Bank of England, he says.

    Customers have rushed to take money out of Northern Rock, amid concerns over their savings.


    Mr Cameron said the situation raises issues that affect "every one of us" and the lines of savers queuing to withdraw their savings from the bank "serve to remind us just how fragile the stability of the economy can be".

    "The credit crunch, previously restricted to the City, has burst onto the high streets," he said.

    "Under Labour our economic growth has been built on a mountain of debt.

    "For all its past talk of prudence, the government has been on a spending and borrowing spree of gigantic proportions."

    The government had to learn that "an economy built on debt puts economic stability at risk", Mr Cameron added.

    He also called for changes to fiscal rules including greater transparency between lenders about borrowers' credit histories.

    "It is not enough for the chancellor simply to talk about common sense in banking," he said.
    Utter bollocks. Here's what really happened-

    HBOS (Britain's biggest lender) screwed up their mortgage pricing strategy in the first half of the year. This created an unprecedented chance for other lenders to seize market share, and Northern Rock dived in hard. Normally they'd cover their operational costs through the international money markets, but the credit squeeze caused by the US sub-prime collapse has closed that route. That means, as you'd expect, the Bank of England bridged the gap. However the press whipped up a panic, and the public got jittery.

    Anyone see the government in there? Me neither. Next news- Cameron blames Gordon Brown for the St Brice's Day Massacre and the mass extinctions at the end of the Permian era.

    Anyway, Northern Rock are left with a big chunk of mortgage business (good quality stuff too- not the sub-prime crap that's dragged down the US sector) and a plummeting share price. Nothing is guaranteed in stock market investment, but my money is on that share price either recovering over the next few years or them getting bought out (which will send the share prices up too).

    Nothing is guaranteed in stack market speculation, and the one potential risk is a collapse of the UK property market in a recession. However it's tempting enough to get me putting money where my mouth is- I've bought some. If anyone has some funds they can lock up for a few years, there are few more enticing opportunities on the London stock exchange right now.
    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

  • #2
    Insider trading!
    Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

    Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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    • #3
      meanwhile...

      Numbers seeking debt advice soar

      The number of people seeking advice on how to meet their debts has hit record levels, the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) has warned.


      The CAB said 1.7 million people sought debt counselling last year, up 20%. CAB is handling 6,600 debt enquiries a day.

      Those with problems paying credit card bills and other unsecured loans accounted for 40% of all enquiries.

      But CAB reported a "worrying" rise in the number of people struggling to meet day-to-day outgoings like phone bills.

      'Paying the price'

      The past two years have seen the number of people seeking debt advice spiral, as a sharp rise in the cost of borrowing has made life far more difficult for many households.

      CAB said the figures illustrated how the consumer credit boom of the past decade - characterised by an easy availability of cheap credit and by people taking on more and more debt - had turned sour for many.

      "These figures are worrying evidence that while many have enjoyed the benefits of the credit boom, a large and growing number of people continue to pay the price," said David Harker, CAB's chief executive.

      Bankruptcy-related enquiries rose 50% last year, while the number of people requiring help with their overdrafts rose 14%. Mortgage-related enquiries rose by 11%.

      Most disturbing of all, the CAB argued, was a 33% rise in the number of people struggling to pay their energy bills and a 25% rise in enquiries about council tax payments.

      Banks and other financial providers needed to act more responsibly, Mr Harker stressed, by not offering new sources of finance to people who were already struggling.

      "Lenders need to do much more to check that borrowers are really in a position to keep up repayments when they take out credit," he said.

      "We also want to see creditors being more willing to negotiate with people in debt."

      The CAB added that it needed 5,000 new volunteers to deal with the surge in enquiries.
      link
      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

      "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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      • #4
        What do you want to see, C0ckney? More regulation of the banking sector?
        The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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        • #5
          Wouldn't you think a lender would be somewhat interested in if they could/would be paid back?
          I'm not saying they should particualrly protect impetuous people, although that IS a thought.
          For simple good business practices, they shouldn't just throw money out the window to the milling throngs.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
            What do you want to see, C0ckney? More regulation of the banking sector?
            Better regulation would be a worthy suggestion.
            www.my-piano.blogspot

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            • #7
              C0ckney: I'm with Laz here. What do you want him to see other than the amount of stupidity in the UK?
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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              • #8
                A better bet is that house prices will fall.

                Which, I am afraid, will lead to you waiting a long time for your bet to pay off.

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                • #9
                  Well I bought yesterday, and they rose 8% today. Meanwhile the Bank of England is guaranteeing the saving balances, and potential buyers are starting to loom.
                  The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Solly

                    Better regulation would be a worthy suggestion.
                    Define what that would look like.
                    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
                      What do you want to see, C0ckney? More regulation of the banking sector?
                      you would think that with the massive amount of regulation there already is, situations like the one we see today could be avoided.

                      in this country today, there is around £1.25 trillion worth of personal debt. it's not just mortgages either, but loans from specialist lenders, credit cards, store cards etc. barely a week goes by where some new offer doesn't come through my door. all sorts of 'easy' credit is available, but are people getting a good deal? i used to volunteer for the CBA (citizen advice bureau - for non brits), and i saw many, many people who got themselves into terrible situations because of debt. they were often been badly advised, sold products which were not suitable for them and not informed in any proper way of the risks. a lot of the problems i encountered seemed to come from specialist lenders, who offer products for those with a poor credit history, or can't prove their income, or have financial problems. i would often find they were bamboozled by these companies, and IFAs (independent financial advisors) into accepting deals which were very bad, and taking on commitments which they simply couldn't afford. worse, when people run up large debts, the solution often presented to them is to take on yet more debt, to pay off what they owe, and it becomes a vicious cycle.

                      it's not just small specialist lenders though, large and reputable financial institutions will lend people five times their salary and 125% of the value of their home, as a mortgage. this is all very well when the economy is on the up and the housing market booming, but when a downturn comes, many of the people sold these products will find themselves in desperate circumstances.

                      quoting from the article you posted:

                      "Under Labour our economic growth has been built on a mountain of debt.

                      "For all its past talk of prudence, the government has been on a spending and borrowing spree of gigantic proportions."
                      this is spot on in my view.

                      that's not to say it's entirely the fault of irresponsible lenders, or our irresponsible government. however, you cannot escape the fact that they have created a climate in which money is lent recklessly, often to people who do not have the means to meet their obligations. bankruptcy has been made far easier and quicker, through IVAs (individual voluntary arrangements). you see them advertised on the TV, as the solution for when you've maxed out your credit cards, taken out a loan to buy a new car, do up the garden, go on holiday etc., then consolidated all your debts into 'one easy monthly payment', then re-mortgaged your house to pay it all off. IVAs do work for some, but during my time at the CAB, i run into several people who had been miss sold IVAs and it left them in a far worse situation than before, some had their lives left in tatters because of it.

                      to answer your question. what i'd like to see is some more serious action taken against firms and IFAs, who sell financial products to vunerable people who cannot afford them. coupled with this i'd like to see more transparency and better advice for people who take out loans or credit cards, so they can really see what they are getting themselves into, and be made fully aware of the risks involved.

                      when people start to run into trouble, there is often very little help available. i would like to more funding given to organisations like the CBA, who can give people honest, impartial advice, and support people through their problems.

                      what i'd most like to see though, is a move away from our culture of easy credit. people are not responsible, and they are not encouraged to act in a responsible way, by either financial institutions or the state. we have a society in which people everything yesterday, and aren't prepared to wait until they can afford something, before they get it. i understand that this is not an easy thing to achieve, of course.
                      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                      "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                      • #12
                        What about individual responsibility, C0ckney? I thought your party had strong feelings about that.

                        If someone spunks a loada money they don't have, and blame the guvmint, do Tories traditionally sympathise with them?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Solly

                          Better regulation would be a worthy suggestion.


                          (click teh smiley)
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                          AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                          AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                          DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

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                          • #14
                            i don't have a party.

                            i'm all for people taking personal responsibility, and i don't see how giving people more advice, information and support, goes against that.
                            "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                            "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                            • #15
                              My apologies for the misapprehension.

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