If Life Was Perfect

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious

A person can judge another persons experience by getting to know them and listening to what they say, because our experience shapes our personality.

Sounds more like delusions of clairvoyance to me.

Originally posted by Kidicious
Would it shock you to know that I too have been motivated by pain? That's not a very unique personality trait. Pain often motivates us. We aren't very different.

So, why then do you contend that this trait would suddenly vanish if I went down a few more rungs on the socioeconomic ladder? Some of the most hardcore achievers I've ever met started with less than nothing. Why didn't experience drive them to despair? Because they faced it with the right attitude.

As Straybow mentioned, suffering is just one of several ways to grapple with challenges. It's just that simple.

[Aeson]

Anyone who says a perfect life is worse than an imperfect life just doesn't know what the word "perfect" means.

[Apocalypse]

Bear in mind, low self esteem can also be relative. There can be a successful guy with a masters that thinks that is **** because it isn't a phd.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871
voluntary purpose, sentient direction, etc

This equals pain aviodance and work?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Aeson
Anyone who says a perfect life is worse than an imperfect life just doesn't know what the word "perfect" means.

Well sure, if you could make it materially perfect and tinker with people's brains somehow to make the sheer boredom of material perfection bearable, there would be "complete" perfection. I don't see how to fix the mental component however, short of inventing Soma...

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
This equals pain aviodance and work?

Did I say that? No, but pain and work are at least necessary components for a sense of purpose and sentient direction to exist, as are pleasure and relaxation.

It's analogous to the statement that "good" cannot exist but for evil.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Darius871


Well sure, if you could make it materially perfect and tinker with people's brains somehow to make the sheer boredom of material perfection bearable, there would be "complete" perfection. I don't see how to fix the mental component however, short of inventing Soma...

Besides the writers for the Twightlight zone for that one episode, who ever said that perfection would be limited to "material perfection"? or better yet, who ever claimed that "material perfection" would be Perfection???

When most people think of the perfect life, they imagine a life both physically and emotionally fulfilled.

hell, a happy Hermit may exiwst metrially day to day and still be free of desire and at peace, a "perfect" life. If anything, the lesson of that show should have been that anyone who defines "perfection" as merely being "material perfection" is bound to be sorely disappointed.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871


Did I say that? No, but pain and work are at least necessary components for a sense of purpose and sentient direction to exist, as are pleasure and relaxation.

It's analogous to the statement that "good" cannot exist but for evil.

Why can't good exist without evil? Why is pain necessary for happiness?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Darius871
Well sure, if you could make it materially perfect and tinker with people's brains somehow to make the sheer boredom of material perfection bearable, there would be "complete" perfection. I don't see how to fix the mental component however, short of inventing Soma...

I think you missed the point.

While manipulating brain activity would be a solution, one which I might add is likely easier in the end than actually creating a political/social Utopia, it's not actually necessary.

In a Utopia there would obviously still be challenges related to maintaining that state. This isn't everything being presented to you on a silver platter, just an environment where by coordinating efforts humanity has eliminated the gross conflicts like wars, crimes, famine, and disease.

Perhaps there are some very few who need to be ass-raped with a fork from time to time to "keep it real", but the vast majority of people could still find meaning and interest to life through sports, games, various types of social interaction, exploration, artistic expression, and internal advancement.

I just thing it's a lack of imagination to say Utopia must be boring. (The other common opposition to Utopia comes from those trying to justify the state here on earth in regards to an all-powerful creator.)

[Darius871]

Originally posted by GePap
When most people think of the perfect life, they imagine a life both physically and emotionally fulfilled.

hell, a happy Hermit may exiwst metrially day to day and still be free of desire and at peace, a "perfect" life. If anything, the lesson of that show should have been that anyone who defines "perfection" as merely being "material perfection" is bound to be sorely disappointed.

Sure, I'd agree with that 100%.

I think Kid and I just went off on the tangent of whether a utopia can be achieved outside of the imagination. We might be capable of arranging material perfection, but very few people would find that emotionally fulfilling for long.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871
So, why then do you contend that this trait would suddenly vanish if I went down a few more rungs on the socioeconomic ladder? Some of the most hardcore achievers I've ever met started with less than nothing. Why didn't experience drive them to despair? Because they faced it with the right attitude.

As Straybow mentioned, suffering is just one of several ways to grapple with challenges. It's just that simple.

Why is climbing the socialeconomic ladder better than already being there? Are you saying that someone at the bottom is happy to be at the bottom because they have to work harder to get pleasure. Why not prefer to be higher up?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by GePap
If anything, the lesson of that show should have been that anyone who defines "perfection" as merely being "material perfection" is bound to be sorely disappointed.

Or just somebody who thinks that teh topic might be an interesting one to discuss, rather than an obvious no-brainer.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
Perhaps there are some very few who need to be ass-raped with a fork from time to time to "keep it real",

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871


Sure, I'd agree with that 100%.

I think Kid and I just went off on the tangent of whether a utopia can be achieved outside of the imagination. We might be capable of arranging material perfection, but very few people would find that emotionally fulfilling for long.

It's incredible how you think most people like work.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Why is climbing the socialeconomic ladder better than already being there? Are you saying that someone at the bottom is happy to be at the bottom because they have to work harder to get pleasure. Why not prefer to be higher up?

Well since you ask, I'm sure I'd hate getting born with a silver spoon for the same exact reasons I'd hate a [material] utopia. At least with the former I could seek some fulfillment in philanthropy though.