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  • Study: Iraqi security forces not ready

    Jeezus H. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

    "They need to start all over again."

    By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer
    16 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - Iraq's security forces will be unable to take control of the country in the next 18 months, and Baghdad's national police force is so rife with corruption it should be scrapped entirely, according to a new independent assessment.


    The study, led by retired Marine Corps Gen. James Jones, is a sweeping and detailed look at Iraq's security forces that will factor heavily into Congress' upcoming debate on the war. Republicans see success by the Iraqi forces as critical to bringing U.S. troops home, while an increasing number of Democrats say the U.S. should stop training and equipping such units altogether.

    The 20-member panel of mostly retired senior military and police officers concludes that Iraq's military, in particular its Army, shows the most promise of becoming a viable, independent security force with time. But the group predicts an adequate logistics system to support these ground forces is at least another two years away.

    The report also offers a scathing assessment of Baghdad's Ministry of Interior and recommends scrapping Iraq's national police force, which it describes as dysfunctional and infiltrated by militias.

    These units "have the potential to help reduce sectarian violence, but ultimately the (Iraq Security Force) will reflect the society from which they are drawn," according to the report, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press. "Political reconciliation is the key to ending sectarian violence in Iraq."

    The United States has spent $19.2 billion on developing Iraq's forces, and plans to spend another $5.5 billion next year. According to Jones' study, the Iraqi military comprises more than 152,000 service members operating under the Ministry of Defense, while the Ministry of Interior oversees some 194,000 civilian security personnel, including police and border control.

    The review is one of several studies that Congress commissioned in May, when it agreed to fund the war for several more months but demanded that the Bush administration and outside groups assess U.S. progress in the four-year war.

    Jones, a former commander of U.S. troops in Europe and former Marine Corps commandant, is scheduled to testify before Congress on Thursday. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and other officials have already been briefed on the study, officials said last week.

    A senior Pentagon official said Wednesday that the military does not believe the Iraqi national police should be disbanded, but acknowledges that getting the Iraqi army up to speed will take a while.

    "We've always recognized that this was a long-term project," Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said Wednesday. "Getting the Iraqi army on its feet and capable of defending the borders of the country independently is not an overnight project. He added: "It is our belief that this will come to fruition. It's going to take some time to happen."

    Several lawmakers — many of whom face tough elections next year — said they would be unswayed by the Jones report and other independent assessments. Congress would fare better by finding a bipartisan solution that would bring troops home, they say.

    "No matter what these reports suggest or what Congress infers from them, it is clear that it is time to develop a post-surge strategy," wrote 13 lawmakers, including three Republicans, on Wednesday to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md.

    But other lawmakers were expected to take keen interest in Jones' findings, which is a rare, detailed look at individual pieces of Iraq's emerging security force. The report was called for by Sen. John Warner, R-Va., the No. 2 Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, who said he wanted an assessment independent of the Pentagon's findings.

    According to the study, the panel agreed with U.S. and Iraqi officials that the Iraqi Army is capable of taking over an increasing amount of day-to-day combat responsibilities, but that the military and police force would still be unable to take control and operate independently in such a short time frame.

    "They are gaining size and strength, and will increasingly be capable of assuming greater responsibility for Iraq's security," the report states, adding that special forces in particular are "highly capable and extremely effective."

    The report is much more pessimistic about Baghdad's police units. It describes these units as fragile, ill-equipped and infiltrated by militia forces. And they are led by the Ministry of Interior, which is "a ministry in name only" that is "widely regarded as being dysfunctional and sectarian, and suffers from ineffective leadership."

    Accordingly, the study recommends disbanding the national police and starting over.

    "Its ability to be effective is crippled by significant challenges, including public distrust, sectarianism (both real and perceived), and a lack of clarity about its identity — specifically whether it is a military or a police force," the report states.

    A group of liberal Democrats said Wednesday the U.S. should stop supporting these forces entirely and withdraw U.S. troops.

    "How can we be sure we are not putting guns into the hands of a future enemy and empowering them for generations to come?" said Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif.
    Good question.

    Other Democrats say party leaders have set their sights on the $147 billion Bush requested for the war as a means of forcing a drawdown of U.S. forces. The money was requested by Bush to pay for combat in budget year 2008, which begins Oct. 1.

    Rep. James Moran, D-Va., a member of the House panel that oversees the military budget, said an option being considered is a bill that funds the troops, but in three- or four-month installments, and directs the money pay only to bring them home.

    The approach would guarantee another showdown with Bush on the war before year's end, putting Republicans squarely in the middle of the debate. With Democrats lacking the two-thirds majority needed to override a presidential veto, they need GOP votes to force legislation ending the war.

    GOP leaders say they are waiting to hear from Gen. David Petraeus, the top military commander in Iraq. But that they aren't so sure they'll lose members to the Democrats' anti-war push.

    "The success our troops have had put some oxygen back in the room, both for the party and the American public," said Rep. Adam Putnam, R-Fla., the No. 3 House Republican.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

  • #2
    How many US troops are there now?
    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #3
      is it a coincidence we've done just about everything we could to ensure a lengthy presence in Iraq?

      "Fight them over there instead of over here"

      translation: turn Iraq into a quagmire to attract terrorists and fencesitting jihadists

      Comment


      • #4
        It wouldn't be so bad if our presents was just attracting terrorists. Our presents is actually creating them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Wezil
          How many US troops are there now?
          About 150,000.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zkribbler
            It wouldn't be so bad if our presents was just attracting terrorists. Our presents is actually creating them.

            Generally, I don't make note of spelling errors; but this one is funny.

            "What? You object to this Barbie doll made in China that I bought for you?"
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • #7
              He could be refering to the 'missing' guns report
              "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
              "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

              Comment


              • #8
                The report is much more pessimistic about Baghdad's police units. It describes these units as fragile, ill-equipped and infiltrated by militia forces. And they are led by the Ministry of Interior, which is "a ministry in name only" that is "widely regarded as being dysfunctional and sectarian, and suffers from ineffective leadership."

                Accordingly, the study recommends disbanding the national police and starting over.


                This is pretty bad actually. Iraq will be left with the army in charge instead of a civil authority
                "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
                "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

                Comment


                • #9
                  It wouldn't be so bad if our presents was just attracting terrorists. Our presents is actually creating them.
                  Damn it, Slow beat me to it...I'm slower.

                  Well, sure, our presence creates them, i.e., fencesitting jihadists. But we're gonna have to face them anyway because our future plans require our presence. We aint leaving, Iran wont be getting the bomb without a confrontation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.

                    We'll be welcomed as liberators.

                    Iraqi oil revenue will pay for the war.

                    Iraqi security forces will take over for US troops.


                    Remind me again what we got right about the war...
                    "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We should have taken Hussein for reasons unrelated to WOMD. We dropped the ball by putting emphasis on Iraq infrastructure, and not keeping our gaze on Afghanistan.
                      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We screwed up, we should have worked behind the scenes to locate OBL and his crew in Afghanistan. They ran and we weren't prepared to get them. Should have laid low, deal with Afghans who dont have any love for AQ and then hit em with a massive airborne drop ringing their camps and light em up with a hefty load of smart bombs. Hell, I dont know why we weren't doing that when they set up shop in Afghanistan.

                        Then again, if my plan was to surround Iran I wouldn't want to be too successful at getting AQ It dont look good if we hang around years after the funeral of the enemy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
                          Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.

                          We'll be welcomed as liberators.

                          Iraqi oil revenue will pay for the war.

                          Iraqi security forces will take over for US troops.


                          Remind me again what we got right about the war...
                          Some predicted 100,000 coalition deaths and even defeat at the hands of the world's 4th largest army. The invasion went great.
                          Long time member @ Apolyton
                          Civilization player since the dawn of time

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, while the invasion went much better than expected
                            it seemed like the expectations for the post war era were just based on plain fantasies of some members of the US government

                            Well, there is a saying,
                            that the US is good at waging war but sucks at rebuilding afterwards.
                            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lancer


                              Some predicted 100,000 coalition deaths and even defeat at the hands of the world's 4th largest army. The invasion went great.
                              By "we" I meant the US government; the predictions of the crunchy granola crowd are not really relevent here (though, once we move beyond body count, it's surprising how much they got right, really).
                              "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

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