Damn it, I can't blame Russians anymore

[Pekka]

So there's this new information, not sure how valid but it's in the press, that there were signs for possible discussion over the Karelia issue in the early 90s and our president and minister of foreign affairs new about it, but took no real interest in it.

So basically this area has been disputed because it was taken from Finland in the aftermath of the Winter War. Now, we've been complaining that we should get this area back, since SU attacked first and invaded. We've been always lead to believe that there never was any intention of even talking about the Karelia issue with RUssians but it turns out there were chances to talk about it and we declined.

It's more of a principle, of course about 400k people lost their homes and moved, but that's about it, the principle of it. Now we really don't want it back because it would cost lots of money to build it up again so it's not realistic from our POV.

However, these secretive POSs could have at least opened a discussion that Russia might be willing to talk about it. THey never opened their mouths, so we've been blaming Russia for stealing the area and not wanting to return it, however, it seems now that there was a chance, we just never took it. So I'd say it's our own damn fault at this point.

I'm a bit disappointed at the secretive ways our leaders seem to be working. Then again, they were the operators of politics in the 70s mostly, an era of DDR loving ****s.

[Pekka]

The point is, it's a moot point now. It's useless to bring it up. We already turned down a possible negotiaton basically, so it's not a good point to bring up anymore.

[VetLegion]

You lost it in the war. Russia will never give it back, under no conditions, ever -- unless it loses it in a war.

Everything else is wishful thinking.

[Wezil]

What have the Russians done with the place? Did they redecorate and invest in the property?

[PLATO]

Wow. I was unfamiliar with the Winter War other than just the basics, but a little Wiki reading has convinced me. Continue to blame the Russians.

[LordShiva]

Serves you right for siding with teh Nazis. At least you got Porkalla back.

[Pekka]

Of course the actual event is something that is not OK, but the fact that our leaders didn't take up on any discussion when it was time, in the early 90s, blame game in my mind points its finger to them now. Why? Because the people that did what they did are dead. It's like blaming Hitler for something politicians were inable to do in the early 90s. So, the 90s, you know, I think if you are getting a chance to an open dialogue, you do it. Even if you do n't want the land back, if dialogue is there, it's a good opportunity to just ... come up with new ideas at least.

Wezil, nothing. It's totally FUBAR for real. 3rd world comes to my mind, literally, not joking. But I think the point was that they weren't ready to give it up, it's more likely that they were up from some projects and stuff like that, fixing the place up or something, mutual interest stuff.

But in short, it's definitely not invested. Just think of a place that sees no money for say, over 50 years. That's what it looks like now.

[Pekka]

LordShiva, are WWII jokes seen as legit ways to mess up a thread these days? Jokes OK, but war jokes, fine. Want to do war jokes? Why don't you just get out of here.

[Wezil]

I was wondering if there was any real "worth" to the place short of the pride factor. If you guys moved out and no one moved in then unless the place has natural resources it doesn't sound too valuable.

It sucks when our leaders lie and withhold but I suspect happens far more often than we care to think about. At least you know where to lay the blame now.

[Pekka]

It's pretty much worthless area, it would cost too much to fix it up anyway. But it has been an issue and a long debate in here, so if it's true what now has been claimed, I mean put an end to it then.

And it's not like I blame people for not actively pursuing at least joint ventures and investing in that region with Russia, but the way that it's been handled is kind of lame.

[Chemical Ollie]

It used to be a very nice area, with Viborg being one of the major towns in Finland and all, but the Russkis messed it up and deported all the Finns. You don't want it back, with its Russian population.

I have some colleagues who worked in Svetogorsk and they say it's an awful place and people there are still stuck in the Sovjet way of thinking. It would be like giving back Kaliningrad to Germany - it used to be a great place, but all the greatness is gone, both the people and the real estate.

[Flubber]

I thought this was going to be some Russian pity thread centred on their horrific hockey performance this year in the junior "super-series"


Oh and on the land thingy-- you should offer to play them a junior hockey series for it-- winner take all--

I thinkm thats Canada's position on sovereignty in the Arctic too- We'll play anyone a junior hockey series ( we sure as heck don't want to be fighting any wars-)

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Flubber
I thought this was going to be some Russian pity thread centred on their horrific hockey performance this year in the junior "super-series"


Oh and on the land thingy-- you should offer to play them a junior hockey series for it-- winner take all--

I thinkm thats Canada's position on sovereignty in the Arctic too- We'll play anyone a junior hockey series ( we sure as heck don't want to be fighting any wars-)

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