WWII experts, can you help me here?

[BeBMan]

Was Free France part of the lend-lease thingy after Vichy got established? And if so, does someone know a nice webpage or so that tells us what kind of stuff exactly they received?

[Dr Strangelove]

I think that the lend-lease program only involved Britain and it's minions. Aid given to Russia and other allies wasn't lend-lease. The lend lease program involved Britain leasing various bases to the US in exchange for aid. AFAIK France and Russia didn't give the US a thing for the aid given to them, though the French may have partially paid us back.

[ElTigre]

Yes, Lend-Lease also applied to the Free French.

Throughout this period, there was therefore no question of Roosevelt recognising Free France ; the most he would do was to provide Lend-Lease aid in November 1941 and agree to an official delegation set up in Washington in December of the same year. It was both a little and a lot, even if the Lend-Lease aid could only be accessed indirectly through Great Britain. For the first time, in an official document, Roosevelt had expressed his sympathy for the "Free French Forces" and the presence of a delegation in the US capital gave Free France a legal existence in the USA, even though this did not extend to official recognition.

http://www.charles-de-gaulle.org/article.php3?id_article=187

5 Infantry and 3 Armoured Divisions were equipped with US materiel.

http://perso.orange.fr/lepoilu/ww2/ww2libintro.htm

[ElTigre]

DEs build for the Free French:

http://www.desausa.org/free_french_des.htm

[Patroklos]

though the French may have partially paid us back.

No, what they did was summarily kick us out of all our brand new military bases in France hoping they would get them.

We broke up the runways and bulldozed the buildings as we happily moved into our new digs in Germany.

Leave the place better than you found it.

[ElTigre]

France made the final payment for WW2 debts in 1963, GB in 2006.

Originally posted by Patroklos

No, what they did was summarily kick us out of all our brand new military bases in France hoping they would get them.

"Brand new"? 22 years after WW2?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by ElTigre
Yes, Lend-Lease also applied to the Free French.

http://www.charles-de-gaulle.org/article.php3?id_article=187

5 Infantry and 3 Armoured Divisions were equipped with US materiel.

http://perso.orange.fr/lepoilu/ww2/ww2libintro.htm

So the arrangement was that a portion of the Lend-Lease material sent to Britain was to be given to the Free French? I knew that the US provided most of the equipment used by Free French forces later in the war, but I didn't know it fell under the provision of the Lend-Lease Act. I was taught that the Lend-Lease act pertained to the deal with Britain by which the British received arms in exchange for leasing to the US bases in the Caribbean and elsewhere. I didn't realise that it covered US military aid to its allies in a broader sense.

I wonder how the US managed to compel the British to pass the equipment on to the French? Churchill trusted de Gaulle even less than Roosevelt did.

[BeBMan]

Thx ElTigre

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by ElTigre
France made the final payment for WW2 debts in 1963, GB in 2006.

Damn, took awhile... Reminds me of thing I heard about the Great War war reparations, to be paid by Germany. They'd have been done 1984 or so. A bit excessive, and I quess they thought so too.

[ElTigre]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

So the arrangement was that a portion of the Lend-Lease material sent to Britain was to be given to the Free French? I knew that the US provided most of the equipment used by Free French forces later in the war, but I didn't know it fell under the provision of the Lend-Lease Act.

I doubt that much Lend-Lease equipment was given to Free French Forces before Operation Torch. I suppose most of the materiel went to the French units in North Africa after they defected to the Allies, and after Vichy France had been occupied by Germany. At that time, they were under operational command of Eisenhower and Cunningham. Politically, the French troops were led by Darlan and, after Darlan was assassinated, Vichy (!) General Giraud. Giraud was the American candidate for leadership of a liberated France. De Gaulle arrived in Algiers only in May 1943.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Giraud

I wonder how the US managed to compel the British to pass the equipment on to the French? Churchill trusted de Gaulle even less than Roosevelt did.

The troops in North Africa were led by the Darlan-Giraud authority until late 1943, so the dislike between de Gaulle and Roosevelt/Churchill didn't matter here. And from a military point of view it makes sense to give the equipment to units that were already in place, fighting the Germans in Tunisia/Italy, rather than retain it for units still in training in the US.

BTW, de Gaulle had a lot more support in London than he had in Washington.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


So the arrangement was that a portion of the Lend-Lease material sent to Britain was to be given to the Free French? I knew that the US provided most of the equipment used by Free French forces later in the war, but I didn't know it fell under the provision of the Lend-Lease Act. I was taught that the Lend-Lease act pertained to the deal with Britain by which the British received arms in exchange for leasing to the US bases in the Caribbean and elsewhere. I didn't realise that it covered US military aid to its allies in a broader sense.

I wonder how the US managed to compel the British to pass the equipment on to the French? Churchill trusted de Gaulle even less than Roosevelt did.

the bases were part of a special deal, the destroyers for bases thingie. Lend Lease followed that and was seperate. It was not based on an immediate quid pro quo, but on the idea that UK was only borrowing the equipment (see FDR's neighbors house on fire speech)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by ElTigre


I doubt that much Lend-Lease equipment was given to Free French Forces before Operation Torch. I suppose most of the materiel went to the French units in North Africa after they defected to the Allies, and after Vichy France had been occupied by Germany. At that time, they were under operational command of Eisenhower and Cunningham. Politically, the French troops were led by Darlan and, after Darlan was assassinated, Vichy (!) General Giraud. Giraud was the American candidate for leadership of a liberated France. De Gaulle arrived in Algiers only in May 1943.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Giraud

The troops in North Africa were led by the Darlan-Giraud authority until late 1943, so the dislike between de Gaulle and Roosevelt/Churchill didn't matter here. And from a military point of view it makes sense to give the equipment to units that were already in place, fighting the Germans in Tunisia/Italy, rather than retain it for units still in training in the US.

BTW, de Gaulle had a lot more support in London than he had in Washington.

Giraud was hardly a typical "Vichy general" having been captured by the Germans, and then escaped. Your link says he supported Vichy between his escape and Torch, but did he actually hold a command? Hardly comparable to Darlan, who was a senior Vichy figure.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by ElTigre
Yes, Lend-Lease also applied to the Free French.

http://www.charles-de-gaulle.org/article.php3?id_article=187

5 Infantry and 3 Armoured Divisions were equipped with US materiel.

http://perso.orange.fr/lepoilu/ww2/ww2libintro.htm

The US supplied arms and munitions for a Free French force greater than France can today put in the field.

What are friends for?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Churchill trusted de Gaulle even less than Roosevelt did.

I don't think that's entirely accurate- the ill-feeling between Roosevelt and de Gaulle had been there since Roosevelt's lack of understanding of the real nature of the Vichy Regime and the capture of Saint-Pierre et Miquelon by the Free French.

Cordell Hull virtually waged a hate campaign against de Gaulle and the Free French too.

Roosevelt also supported those opposed to de Gaulle within the Free French forces.

[Alexander's Horse]

britain only just paid off lend-lease