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UK economy- 60th successive quarter of growth

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  • #61
    The two things I remember about Mrs Thatcher as far as economic policies go, are her putting a stop to propping up ailing industries with government subsidies and her curtailing the power of the unions.

    She was right on the first count. Like dannubis I find it a bit surprising that an economy can thrive without a manufacturing base but it turns out that it can. Looking backwards to our industrial past hadn't been working, embracing an economy based on services has.

    I don't myself think she was right about the unions. As far as I can see employers have not, in the UK, gone back to being oppressive, as they were before workers learned to band together. Perhaps the statutory rights which have taken strong root in the UK help to prevent that. But I am suspicious. I suspect that the only way to be sure that employers do not oppress is for workers to be free to band together effectively.

    But it is striking that, just as Mrs Thatcher was never in a position to dismantle the welfare state, so her successors have never been able to dismantle her union reforms. Maybe I am wrong and that policy, too, was a good and necessary one.

    One thing that most certainly has contributed substantially to the UK's economic stability in recent years is our membership of the European Union. And credit for that lies with Mrs Thatcher's predecessor, Ted Heath. It is he that took us in. Mrs T negotiated a deal which put our membership on a firmer footing but she, in common with many politicians subsequently, spent most of her time wailing about how membership curtailed her own power rather than acknowledging the economic and political benefits and seeking to maximise them. In that she was hopelessly parochial.

    Incidentally I went to see Madame Butterfly at Covent Garden a few months back and Mrs T was going in to take her seat immediately in front of my girlfriend and I. People going in stood aside forming a little aisle for her to walk down, which I thought was nice. She looked well and not too frail. She was quite immacualtely turned out - so much so that it was a little bit odd. But I suppose when you know that as soon as you step out of your door you will catch the eye of everyone about you that probably makes you determined not to have a hair out of place.

    I pretty much despise her politics but I did feel quite a strong sense of admiration.

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    • #62
      Well, since you still have a heavy industry branch lats time I checked you don't count.
      "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by DinoDoc
        The reforms Thatcher brought to the island.
        Combined with 10 years of a government keeping it stable and not subscribing to Thatcherite boom and bust.
        Smile
        For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
        But he would think of something

        "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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        • #64
          The bust in the late 80's early 90's was a result of shadowing the DM and then entering the ERM. Interest rates went down during an expansion and went up during the contraction creating the Boom and Bust. Now Thatcher was PM so bears responsbility. Lawson was Chancellor so he must take some blame as do Lamont and Major. However the entire British political class wanted us to be in the ERM and at that time there was no suggestionof an independant Bank of England(who would not have allowed int rates to go down during a rapid expansion)

          The best thing that ever happened to the labour party was losing the 92 election as if they had won we still would have had black wednesday and they would not have been trusted with the economy again)
          Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
          Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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          • #65
            Originally posted by dannubis


            Well then. You could at least give me one example of a real economy that proves your point...

            Remember, a real economy.
            How about Liechtenstein?
            ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
            ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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            • #66
              "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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              • #67
                As far as I know, they don't have any heavy industry. The place is a tax haven, so international companies base their operations there.
                ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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                • #68
                  OK, how much people has their obviously super large economy to support ?
                  "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                  • #69
                    What is your definition of a "proper" economy?
                    ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                    ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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                    • #70
                      Generally, heavy industry is low value. Even China is able to do it. If China were unwilling for some reason, then the next country down on the list would be perfectly capable of taking up the slack.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #71
                        yes, and still every major economy has a significant heavy industry branch.

                        running an industry on services alone is ok for very small countries but it has never been tried before on a much larger scale.
                        "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                        • #72
                          Every major economy also has a prostitution branch. Doesn't mean it can't run without it.
                          DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                          • #73
                            In theory...
                            "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by TheStinger
                              The bust in the late 80's early 90's was a result of shadowing the DM and then entering the ERM.
                              There was more to it than that. The tax cuts in the 1988 budget at a point when the economy was already seriously overheated were the factor that kicked off the inflationary spiral at the very start of the recession. The huge balance of trade deficit was also an issue.

                              The best thing that ever happened to the labour party was losing the 92 election as if they had won we still would have had black wednesday and they would not have been trusted with the economy again)
                              Debateable. Labour had much greater scope to tackle inflationary pressure with tax rises in the run-up. Black Wednesday would probably have happened, but quite possibly to a lesser extent.

                              Plus, of course, they would probably have blamed it on the Tory legacy.
                              The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by dannubis
                                yes, and still every major economy has a significant heavy industry branch.
                                The significance is decreasing every year in most countries.
                                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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