War on Terror a rousing success: al-Qaida has rebuilt to level just before 9/11

[Arrian]

It's old news now, but the Brits were not terribly pleased about American support for the IRA. I do believe we generally ignored their complaints.

I don't know what the FBI and CIA were up to vis-a-vis the IRA. Hopefully they were helping the Brits.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Please do tell, when the last time the IRA was a problem that the British didnot happily want to be in their sphere soley?

Or when was it you think the FBI and CIA were not intimatley involved with our Brit counterparts on the issue?

The 80's.

[Patroklos]

It's old news now, but the Brits were not terribly pleased about American support for the IRA. I do believe we generally ignored their complaints.

They were pissed about private help like fund raising. We shared information about the IRA like we do for any criminal organization. And regardless, the important years of the IRA were long before the WoT.

No, I do not. Other than Telling the Turks to stay out of Northern Iraq while they keep getting attacked, that is.

You don't think we have any opinion to stress to our Kurdish buddies about a potential invasion of their territory destabilizing the portion of Iraq doing the best?

[DinoDoc]

I think we have an opinion to express on the matter. I don't think we're expressing it though and not doing so is hurting our relationship with Turkey, Pat.

[Patroklos]

Again, the WoT is not all guns and bombs. And obviously we can't do everything everywhere all the time the same way to the same extent.

The reality of the situation matters.

And God only knows how much intel we give the Turks. Not to mention they get their normal cheap military sales.

[Arrian]

They were pissed about private help like fund raising. We shared information about the IRA like we do for any criminal organization. And regardless, the important years of the IRA were long before the WoT

Two things about this:

1) Our "regime" knew about the IRA's fundraising and whatnot. You say we shared info with the Brits, and I am ignorant of that. My impression was that we told them to pound sand. Our "regime" also invited Gerry Adams over for a visit over the objections of the Brits, IIRC. Clinton did that, didn't he?

2) Ah, so the WoT *is* really all about the USA, isn't it? The WoT starts only when we get hit hard. Before that, meh.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Speaking of intel sharing... given the unreliability of our intel of late, if I were the Turks, I'd be taking it with several pounds of salt.

-Arrian

[Robert]

Originally posted by Arrian
It was Cheney, IIRC, who pushed the Saddam-9/11 connection. Just going from memory, it was the repeated references to how Saddam supported terror (gifts to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers, I believe), immediately followed by or preceded by references to 9/11.

In any event, it was skillfully done. To this day, a shocking percentage of Americans think Saddam had a hand in 9/11.

-Arrian

Maybe they've played some games there,
but what could they do? The leftish media/people played 1000 more games, like predicting the end of the world, millions of casualities, and YES YES YES, a nuclear or at least chemical holocaust in the regio.

A small not outspoken but suggested suggestion by talking about SH's terror support in Israel followed by talking about 9/11 is sneaky, smart, but far from the demagogy used by the leftish.

It's weird how the leftish always are able to draw demagogic pictures of how all the world will stop spinning around and the poor will die like flies when their plans will not be executed, while they keep haunting the rightish people if they use a tad bit of demagogy.

[Patroklos]

Our "regime" knew about the IRA's fundraising and whatnot. You say we shared info with the Brits, and I am ignorant of that. My impression was that we told them to pound sand.

We just didn't circumvent our civil rights to kick in the doors of all of Boston to find their operatives.

Ah, so the WoT *is* really all about the USA, isn't it? The WoT starts only when we get hit hard. Before that, meh.

No more than WWI was all about Austria.

[Arrian]

Maybe they've played some games there,
but what could they do? The leftish media/people played 1000 more games

Lots of predictions were made, by all sorts of people. Ranging from "they will greet us with flowers and everything will be great! Shining Beacon of Democracy!" to "500,000 (US) casualties, maybe WMDs used on our troops, countless civilian deaths!"

First, one outlandish prediction doesn't justify another.

Second, the conflation of Saddam and AQ by the Admin wasn't a prediction. It works like this:

"Saddam and AQ were in it together" = (false, spun, whatever you want to call it) interpretation of present-day or past reality.

"The invasion will result in X" = prediction of the future.

That's not the same thing.

A small not outspoken but suggested suggestion by talking about SH's terror support in Israel followed by talking about 9/11 is sneaky, smart, but far from the demagogy used by the leftish.

It is sneaky, smart, and borderline evil. Machievellian.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

We just didn't circumvent our civil rights to kick in the doors of all of Boston to find their operatives.

I think it went beyond that, however I agree that our refusal to violate civil rights to go after the IRA in the US was good.

But what if you apply that to the present situation? Doesn't that make one a traitor or somesuch?

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

Speaking of intel sharing... given the unreliability of our intel of late, if I were the Turks, I'd be taking it with several pounds of salt.

It is as realiable as such intel will ever be. In any case, I am thinking military type stuff like satelite pics and ELINT. Thats just hard data, the Turks can do with it what they will.

But what if you apply that to the present situation? Doesn't that make one a traitor or somesuch?

The organizations we are targeting and dealing with today are orders of magnitude above the IRA. Did the IRA ever kill 3000 people in their entire history of bombing other nations? Did they ever bomb anyone other than Britian?

[Arrian]

The IRA bombed people. There is a difference in the scale, yes.

So basically the decision on whether or not to kick civil rights to the curb comes down to a question of the level of the threat. Big enough threat - or merely a big enough perception of threat - and toss 'em.

-Arrian

[Sirotnikov]

Again, the WoT is not all guns and bombs.

this is a very important part that people seem to forget.

there's a huge effort going on sharing intelligence, sharing and gathering information - one country for its allies.

Most of the steps in the WoT are infact legistlative and economical - stopping money transfers, stopping weapons smuggling, stopping propoganda attempts, stopping training camps, stopping recruitment in western countries.

In this sense, the western world is much safer than it was pre-9/11

[Arrian]

And so long as such measures don't conflict with our civil liberties, Siro, I applaud them. Bravo.

I was focusing on the military angle because we got into a discussion of Iraq. I'm well aware that the "WoT" is much more than military - and I daresay most people who complain about Iraq are similarly aware. Indeed, many of us worry that Iraq has distracted from our efforts elsewhere (though mainly that means military efforts in Afganistan).

-Arrian