Well I'll be damned...

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Mao
*shrug*

Maybe, but I still get the impression that this isn't a Ponzi scheme. But people can think what they wish... Is there any way to even prove that something isn't a Ponzi scheme?

Checking with the FBI or other relevant government agency charged with investigating fraud is a good place to start.

[Mao]

Good point. I should go and check those. I don't think I'm actually anywhere near the time of the chain, but I guess I can't prove it either way. *shrug*

Although I wonder if someone in advertising (Ming? rah?) could tell me if this was even a sound business plan anyway?

[snoopy369]

It is a ponzi scheme, in essence, if:

1. They take money from you up front, with promise of greater money later.
or
2. They ask you to pay money to third parties, with promise of greater money later.

I would say it is not a ponzi scheme if they don't ask you to pay any money.

However, I would highly doubt that they would make this offer as part of a legitimate business practice. Unless they get paid quite a lot of money from the credit card companies (who stand to make by far the most from these offers, and typically signing up for and using one credit card is required for most or all of them IIUC), it's unlikely they're a solvent business in the long run, and either don't pay out people eventually, or just go bankrupt (and thus don't pay people).

That said, the CC companies could well pay them a lot ... they stand to make a lot of money from people who get their CCs.

I'd say that if they're a public company and have released their books at least once, it should be trivial to determine if they're solvent.

If they are, look at their profit per 'level'. If the amount they get from the offer people is greater than $250, or at least close enough that the number of people who fail to complete all offers make up the difference [and given the hardest one to do is the CC one typically, this number shouldn't be that high of a dollar value], then they're legit. If they don't, it's either a scheme or a really dumb business.

[Kuciwalker]

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

[Mao]

Originally posted by snoopy369
It is a ponzi scheme, in essence, if:

1. They take money from you up front, with promise of greater money later.
or
2. They ask you to pay money to third parties, with promise of greater money later.

I would say it is not a ponzi scheme if they don't ask you to pay any money.

However, I would highly doubt that they would make this offer as part of a legitimate business practice. Unless they get paid quite a lot of money from the credit card companies (who stand to make by far the most from these offers, and typically signing up for and using one credit card is required for most or all of them IIUC), it's unlikely they're a solvent business in the long run, and either don't pay out people eventually, or just go bankrupt (and thus don't pay people).

That said, the CC companies could well pay them a lot ... they stand to make a lot of money from people who get their CCs.

I'd say that if they're a public company and have released their books at least once, it should be trivial to determine if they're solvent.

If they are, look at their profit per 'level'. If the amount they get from the offer people is greater than $250, or at least close enough that the number of people who fail to complete all offers make up the difference [and given the hardest one to do is the CC one typically, this number shouldn't be that high of a dollar value], then they're legit. If they don't, it's either a scheme or a really dumb business.

Thanks snoopy. I guess this sorta falls under the second example, since the company itself never asks for money. I'll try to find their books and see if it's online. The other thing about giving money is that for any of the offers I completed, I never paid more than a nominal shipping and handling charge ($5 was the most I ever paid IIRC) that puts you into a trial offer. If you cancel before the trial ends, you get charged nothing more (but if you forget, it's something ridiculous like $60 a month thereafter). I guess they third party companies may make money from those people who forget to cancel, and the company that pays me gets money either way from these third party companies. More importantly, I don't use a credit card per se - I use a Visa gift card that has only a set amount of money on it and cannot be recharged. I buy the gift card with cash and so AFAIK the card cannot be traced to anyone. So I don't think it's necessarily the credit card companies that get the payout from these things.

So I guess it resembles a Ponzi scheme on some levels, but I'm curious to know what the going rate is for companies to pay for a referral for someone to do a trial offer for their product.

However, there are other sites that I'm involved with that don't ask for any money whatsoever upfront (unless you complete offers that require money) but rather will pay you a dollar or so each time you give a company your e-mail address (I got a hotmail account) or zip code.

[Mao]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
There is no such thing as a free lunch.

I guess you're right, but you offering them something that you're getting paid for (your information, whether it be e-mail, a mailing address real or fake, etc.). I also tend to trust some of these sites because there are entire sites and forums devoted to looking for deals for these things. True, they could all be a conspiracy to encourage ponzi schemes too, but *shrug* the important part is that I am $250 richer.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by MarkG
well you can delete the asking people to pm you part as well. although i believe the thread should be deleted at all. but i'm not a mod

so what's up? how's the coffee shop?

Well, now that I have read your post, I know that I can PM Mao for the info.

So what was the point in it?

ACK!

[Mao]

Originally posted by Tuberski


Well, now that I have read your post, I know that I can PM Mao for the info.

So what was the point in it?

ACK!

haha but he can see those as well...

[Tuberski]

There is always e-mail........

ACK!

[Blaupanzer]

Poor Mao, no work!

[snoopy369]

By credit card companies, I refer to the fact that most of the offers i've seen like that require you to obtain a credit card as part of the offer [their highest 'tier' of offers]. I'm not sure what the average profit off of a credit card user is per year, but even for a $1000 credit limit, maybe $4000 use per year, they make a decent buck between processing fees and interest. I could see them paying $100 per customer ... but that doesn't get close to $250, so either they pay more than I imagine, or there's something fishy

[Elok]

Good Day !!!

My name is USMAN BELLO and I represent the CROWN OF NIGERIA. I have 200 million$$ dollars in gold bars and am seeking a modality to launder it with interested parties overseas...

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Mao


haha but he can see those as well...

No, he can't.

[Mao]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Poor Mao, no work!

I know! No one wants to hire me for piecemeal work...maybe it's because I have no skills... haha.

snoopy, there are 2 offers or so to apply for a credit card on the site, most of them are random things like Columbia House's DVD club (which actually isn't a bad deal if you realy want to have lots of DVDs) or diet supplements or such that come with a free trial. I'd be really curious to find out the actual price structure of these referrals too...