Chavez will not join Mercosur/Mercosul

[Barnabas]

Mercosur/Mercosul is the trade block made of Brazil Argentina + Uruguay and Paraguay.

Chavez was criticised in the brasilian congress for closing that tv channel, Chavez then called the brasilian legislators "parrots of yankee imperialism" , and after that the brasilian minister of foreign relations demanded an apology.

Now he says Mercosur is infested with capitalism and competition, and that he wont join a mercosur which does not want to change. And that if the brazilian right does not want him he wont join Mercosur.

Now he wants to create a non capitalist trade block called ALBA (Bolivarian alternative for America) with Cuba, Ecuador, Bolivia and Nicaragua.

I think basically this means Chavez is very irrelevant, Brazil and Argentina are the 2 biggest south american economies, Chile, Peru and Colombia are not Chavez friendly, the same goes for Mexico.
Chavez can only influence with his oil money the very small and very poor countries.

I think in Europe and the USA Chavez gets quite overrated.

[Last Conformist]

I don' t know about the rest of Europe, but in Swedish media you don't hear much of the Chavista aggressors. In fact, you don't hear much about anything unless it's in Europe, has American troops in it, and/or is Israel/Palestine.

[Dinner]

Chavez is over rated. He's a one trick pony out to make himself dictator and if the people of his country aren't smart enough to see through his constant claims that the US is behind everything bad in the world then they deserve what they get.

[VetLegion]

How advanced is Mercosur? Last I remember reading, it was in a perpetual beginning phase.

Is trade between Brasil and Argentina really without barriers?

[Dinner]

If Mercosur wants to out compete this socialist economic block all they need to do is bring in those big states not already in Mercosur and they'll eventually win. Most of South America's economy is already in Mercosur so if Chile, Peru, and Columbia are also brought in then really Chavez has no were else to go and eventually places like Ecuador will have new elections and the new government will join the rest of South America.

[Drake Tungsten]

Free Trade Agreement of the Americas

[Dinner]

It's been dead for a while and the US killed. They wouldn't give up their trade distorting farm subsidies and the Latin Americans didn't want to have their agricultural sectors destroyed by subsidized US farm goods. Either we give up protectionism for farmers or we'll never get a FTZA.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Chavez is over rated. He's a one trick pony out to make himself dictator and if the people of his country aren't smart enough to see through his constant claims that the US is behind everything bad in the world then they deserve what they get.

To be fair, a great deal of the people supporting Chavez in Venezuela are dirt poor and uneducated, thus it's a) easy to talk them into something, and b) even if they don't buy into his phrase mongering, they don't give a **** as long as they relatively benefit.
As long as the kleptocratic oligarchies control the economies of many Latin American countries, fundamentally opposing education programs for the poor, health care, welfare, support for indigenous communities etc., there is support for Chavez and thelikes. That has nothing to do with being "not smart" but with having few options.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It's been dead for a while and the US killed. They wouldn't give up their trade distorting farm subsidies and the Latin Americans didn't want to have their agricultural sectors destroyed by subsidized US farm goods. Either we give up protectionism for farmers or we'll never get a FTZA.

Has Mexico's agricultural sector been damaged much by NAFTA?

[Dinner]

Short anwser is yes. Most of Mexico's farmers lived on small family farms created after the big plantations were busted up after the revolution 90 years ago. These farms are to small to compete on a cemmercial scale so they're going belly up and this is the cause of most of Mexico's nondrug related unrest. The good news is NAFTA has resulted in lots of new manufacturing jobs in Mexico so many of these farmers have been able to move into low wage manufacturing or else move to the US to work menial jobs.

Mexico's government still isn't dealing with the fundimental problems though such as complete lack of education (even elementary education) for large sections of the population, an entrenched elite which is very wealthy yet pays the lowest tax rate out of any country in the hemisphere, and a lack of basic infrastructure. In rural Mexico, meaning half of the country, the roads aren't paved and there are no bridges while getting electricity or a telephone line can take years unless you are willing to pay a hefty bribe.

[Barnabas]

In Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay agriculture is competitive and modern, more similar to Australia or New Zealand, and they export a lot of food, they are the ones who say to no the free trade agreement of the Americas till USA farm subsidies are gone (and it is not a coincidence those countries are 3 of the 4 members of mercosur)

[lord of the mark]

so South America is now divided up effectively into 3 blocs, the "Bolivarian" bloc, MercoSur, and the US pupp- er close partners, like Chile?

[Barnabas]

Yes

The ones "the economist" likes Chile, Colombia, Peru, Costa Rica, Mexico,

the commies Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador

And Mercosur, which is capitalist but more industrialized, with more state intervention


The USA btw, has changed its startegy, now it no longers negotiates for the free trade agreement of the Americas with all countries, now it negotiates individually with each country for a free trade agreement, so countries which dont have a problem with the farm subsidies accept, it is a way to put pressure on Brazil and Argentina, because in the near future maybe most latin american countries except them will have free trade agreements, and it will be a disadvantage.

So the USA will probably end up getting the free trade agreement of the americas without surrendering anything