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Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascists

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  • Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascists

    The arrogant, undemocratic and unelected EU bureaucrats have already had their vile consitution rejected by the good voters of France and the Netherlands. They are choosing to ignore that and foist the consitution on us under the guise of a 'treaty' that bypasses the inconvenience of the will of the people. So what part of "non" do they not understand?

    I'm not accustomed to sticking up for the actions of Mr Blair's government, but I'm pleased that they seem to be resisting this intolerable assualt on democracy by the unelected commissioners.

    Go take a tosso, Barosso!




    Insults fly as Britain feels the heat
    Philip Webster, Political Editor, David Charter in Brussels and Fran Yeoman

    Britain and Poland were accused of being the obstacles to a deal on Europe’s future last night as the preparations for tomorrow’s crucial summit became increasingly rocky.

    The head of the European Commission told Britain directly that it was not being “intelligent” in threatening to block parts of the revived EU constitution.

    But Margaret Beckett, the Foreign Secretary, accused most of the EU of being “in denial” about the failure of the previous constitution.


    The angry exchanges came as Tony Blair and Gordon Brown presented a united front to the rest of Europe. In a joint telephone call with President Sarkozy of France, they made plain that there would be no retreat from the “red lines” set out by Mr Blair on Monday.

    According to Downing Street, the three agreed that Britain and France should work together to help to create an amending treaty and “that a return to a constitutional treaty as rejected by France and Holland would not be possible”.

    They talked as José Manuel Barroso, the Commission President, showed his frustration at continued objections to the new EU treaty from Britain and Poland by giving warning that it would not be in their long-term interests to rock the boat, and he told them to stop talking of “red lines and vetoes”.

    Mrs Beckett, appearing before the Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee, surprised MPs by saying that there had been a lack of proper negotiation in the run-up to the summit.

    Countries that ratified the previous constitution, rejected by France and the Netherlands, were reluctant to accept that the original treaty could not return, she added.

    “There have not been feverish negotiations and discussions in Europe, I wish there had,” Mrs Beckett said yesterday. “Most of our colleagues, bluntly, have been in denial, saying things like, ‘People signed up to this in 2004 so therefore we must all agree with it now’. Maybe it’s a great pity that there have been no negotiations.”

    She said that the attitude of those countries that had previously ratified the constitution was, understandably, whether they could save as much of it as possible. “For those countries, this is genuinely very difficult,” she added.

    Mrs Beckett said that Mr Blair’s red lines were “the closest we have come to spelling out” our position. She added: “We have been keeping our negotiating powder dry.”

    Mr Barroso, a former Portuguese Prime Minister backed by Britain to run the European Commission, launched an ill-tempered attack on countries that he thought were hampering this week’s talks on a treaty to replace the failed constitution.

    Britain has set out more “red-line” objections than any other country and the Poles are digging in hard for a review of voting weights because they believe that the proposed new system will give Germany too much power.

    “It is not in the interest of any member state to be in a position that is seen as hard- liner,” Mr Barroso said before the summit, which starts in Brussels tomorrow. “Please avoid appearing as blocking. This is not intelligent, this is not in your interest,” he said.

    “It may be useful for some national consumption for some time, but it will not be useful in the medium and the long term. Defend your positions, but don’t come with these red lines and vetoes.” Mr Barroso added: “Failure would set back our work across the board.”

    Britain secured some presentational changes in the first draft of the EU treaty proposal last night.

    The title of EU “foreign minister” will be dropped and replaced with a name that does not conflict with the titles of national representatives, although the job will remain, according to the proposals to be put forward by the German EU presidency and seen by The Times.

    Importantly for Mr Blair, the draft document discussed by diplomats in Brussels last night proposed downgrading the EU constitution aim of stating the primacy of Union law by instead making it a “declaration”.


  • #2
    You know, you'd be a lot harder for us to ignore if you were one big country instead of a bunch of wee little ones the size of our states. Just saying...
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

    Comment


    • #3
      While that may be true, it isn't really the point here. One can be pro-Europe without being pro-EU.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascists

        Typical for the Times to ignore that the revived basic treaty may not be the same as the original one. That's exactly a matter of debate right now.

        Originally posted by Cort Haus
        The arrogant, undemocratic and unelected EU bureaucrats...
        I wasn't aware Merkel and Sarkozy are EU bureaucrats.
        DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ignoring?

          The article makes references to several changes.
          One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

          Comment


          • #6
            Referring them as "presentational changes"... no word of the possibility the charter of human rights would be junked along with other elements the federalists sneaked in the previous document.
            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Elok
              You know, you'd be a lot harder for us to ignore if you were one big country instead of a bunch of wee little ones the size of our states. Just saying...
              Which has what to do with the topic at hand?
              Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

              It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
              The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

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              • #8
                Re: Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascists

                The arrogant, undemocratic and unelected US democrats have already had their so-called presidential candidates rejected by the good voters of the GOP last time. They are choosing to ignore that and foist their candidates on US under the guise of "democracy". So what part of "no" do they not understand?

                Will they now vote again and again until some day a non GOP pres is elected?
                Blah

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Re: Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascists

                  Originally posted by Colon™
                  I wasn't aware Merkel and Sarkozy are EU bureaucrats.
                  They're lackeys and lickspittles. And running dogs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Re: Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascists

                    Originally posted by BeBro
                    The arrogant, undemocratic and unelected US democrats have already had their so-called presidential candidates rejected by the good voters of the GOP last time. They are choosing to ignore that and foist their candidates on US under the guise of "democracy". So what part of "no" do they not understand?

                    Will they now vote again and again until some day a non GOP pres is elected?
                    Nice try, but a strawman. This is a constitution, not a presidency.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It's not a constitution, it's a treaty, whatever it may have been named.
                      DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Re: Re: Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascists

                        Originally posted by Cort Haus


                        Nice try, but a strawman. This is a constitution, not a presidency.
                        While that's true, it doesn't make that a strawman, since the point is that it is rather normal, and not some evil move, when political issues are brought up several times even when (or esp. when) they failed before.
                        Blah

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Colon™
                          Referring them as "presentational changes"... no word of the possibility the charter of human rights would be junked along with other elements the federalists sneaked in the previous document.
                          Most readers wouldn't know what was in the previous document. They could have listed them out I suppose but then it would have detracted from the thrust of the article, which was clearly that Britain and France are working together and that Poles are good for Britain.

                          Focus on what you will.
                          One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh, I'm sure it helps to educate the British reader to indicate any changes will be cosmetical, even if it wasn't the main trust of the article.
                            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Plucky democracy-loving Brits defend Europe from EU-Aggressor-Fascist

                              Originally posted by BeBro
                              While that's true, it doesn't make that a strawman, since the point is that it is rather normal, and not some evil move, when political issues are brought up several times even when (or esp. when) they failed before.
                              Well, the EU certainly has a track record in persisently trying to over-ride the conclusions of voters when they considered the results unsatisfactory. A referendum in Ireland springs to mind, where they made the Irish vote again, with a barrage of propaganda saying how terrible people were that voted the wrong way.

                              Of course governments and parliamentary factions will try to re-introduce failed bills, but what's different here, apart from the scale of the issue, is the role of the voters who the elite are trying to exclude.

                              The commission has contempt for voters, because voters can 'get it wrong'. This is contempt for democracy. Whilst some of the trappings of the old consitution have been removed it keeps, in Merkel's words, ‘much of the substance’ of the constitution. Renaming it a treaty and trying to impose it over the heads of unenthusiastic voters looks pretty shabby to me.

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