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Narnia and prejudice

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  • Narnia and prejudice

    I've just started reading the Narnia series. I've purchased the whole series in one big volume.

    Now I read the first two books, and the Christian symbolism and everything jumped right out at me. They were a very enjoyable read, because of the way the author has written everything. You keep looking for clues, for further symbols, for meanings behind meanings.

    Just a few hours ago I started on the third book, and I'm about halfway through it, and I'm stunned at the level of prejudice and superioritism it displays. It may not be apparent to most people when they read it, but nearly every detail of the Calormen civilisation can be traced back to some or the other source in the Arabian Nights or some other part of that time's Caliphate culture, right down to the concept of the ritual baths, the descriptions of the cities, of society, of royalty, of dress, food, speech, and even the method of story-telling adopted by a character in the book.

    Now most people are not familiar with the Arabian Nights literature, or the style of narration adopted by it, or of the society it describes, or the architecture it portrays. Nor are they familiar with the style of writing most nineteenth century translators of texts adopted when translating texts from "the East" into English. That is why it is not so striking. But for someone who has actually gone through all that, and more, it's quite a jolt.

    This Calormen culture is constantly (and rather blatantly and quite inelegantly, in my opinion) contrasted with the "freedom" of the people of Narnia, who are shown to be superior in every single conceivable way. The Calormenian society is shown as some sort of model of "Oriental Despotism", and strictly and cruelly hierarchical.

    Now, as a work of fiction, I don't mind this portrayal - a mature reader will understand it for what it is. But I find it absolutely monstrous that such writing can be recommended to children, or treated as "children's fantasy literature". This is the sort of thing that is absolutely guaranteed to breed prejudice. Children's reading my arse! In fact, this is the sort of thing which can cause unintentional prejudice even in an uninformed adult!

  • #2
    I'm stunned at the level of prejudice and superioritism it displays


    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Ultima Ratio Regum

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    • #3

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      • #4
        Is aneeshm defending Islam?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zkribbler
          Is aneeshm defending Islam?
          Sort of. As I said, I'm fine with the books, but I have a huge problem with giving them to kids not old enough to understand the references and allusions behind them. It's just a recipe for prejudice.

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          • #6
            Eh, they were written in the fifties. What do you expect, a multi-cultural lovefest? And what kind of adult, uninformed or not, bases his or her opinion of...vague orientalism (I never could tell which exact country or culture Calormen is supposed to represent, it's sort of a mishmash) on a children's fantasy book? That sort of idiot would also come to the conclusion that lions are benevolent deities, and soon be killed off by natural selection.

            And Calormen is not an Islamic civilization, it's polytheistic. Religion-wise, it's classical paganism with a barbaric twist, but the rest of their culture is decidedly middle eastern. I guess Narnia is encouraging us to despise pre-Mohammed Arabs, who died and/or lost all influence over 1000 years ago. Trans-temporal prejudice is the worst kind, you know.
            1011 1100
            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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            • #7
              Calormen is a complete photocopy of the ideal Baghdadian society of the Caliphate period as described in the Arabian Nights. It's there in every single detail.

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              • #8
                A Horse and His Boy is the best of the series, too.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zkribbler
                  Is aneeshm defending Islam?
                  No, he's doing
                  "I'm not prejudiced against islam, your culture is!!!"
                  maneuvre
                  "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                  I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                  Middle East!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by aneeshm
                    Calormen is a complete photocopy of the ideal Baghdadian society of the Caliphate period as described in the Arabian Nights. It's there in every single detail.
                    Except they're POLYTHEISTIC, and worship deities more akin to the ancient Egyptian ones than to Allah. There is no mention of any figure like Mohammed, and the Tisroc is supposedly descended from the god Tash. Yes, it's very similar to the Caliphate--except there's no Caliph. They have similar architecture and local hierarchies, etc.

                    And I've only read excerpts from Arabian Nights, but from what I recall of it Calormen would actually be cleaned up a good deal. They don't mistreat blacks and Jews, for example, though neither group exists in that world so it doesn't mean much. Calormen is a collection of vague Oriental concepts about which Lewis knew relatively little; being a medievalist, he was most informed about ancient European cultures. A mishmash of European cultures became Narnia, and a mishmash of Asian cultures became Calormen.

                    Have you read all of the books? Because what's odd is that there are decent, in fact quite noble, Calormenes, it's just that their society is decadent and cruel and teaches most of them to follow suit. In other words, exactly what you've been accusing Islamic culture of from day one...except again, the Calormenes are not Islamic.
                    1011 1100
                    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Elok

                      Except they're POLYTHEISTIC, and worship deities more akin to the ancient Egyptian ones than to Allah. There is no mention of any figure like Mohammed, and the Tisroc is supposedly descended from the god Tash. Yes, it's very similar to the Caliphate--except there's no Caliph. They have similar architecture and local hierarchies, etc.
                      That's not really relevant, because the society shows no real polytheistic or even Hindu influence whatsoever.

                      By the way, the Caliph was supposed to be the Shadow of God on Earth, or something like that, so he had divine authority, which mirrors the "descendance from Tash" thing quite closely.

                      Originally posted by Elok

                      And I've only read excerpts from Arabian Nights, but from what I recall of it Calormen would actually be cleaned up a good deal. They don't mistreat blacks and Jews, for example, though neither group exists in that world so it doesn't mean much.
                      They (the Calormen) still treated slaves as badly.

                      Originally posted by Elok

                      Calormen is a collection of vague Oriental concepts about which Lewis knew relatively little; being a medievalist, he was most informed about ancient European cultures. A mishmash of European cultures became Narnia, and a mishmash of Asian cultures became Calormen.
                      Not much of a mishmash when over 95% is Arabian society of the Caliphate, and everything else is too small to be relevant.

                      Originally posted by Elok

                      Have you read all of the books? Because what's odd is that there are decent, in fact quite noble, Calormenes, it's just that their society is decadent and cruel and teaches most of them to follow suit. In other words, exactly what you've been accusing Islamic culture of from day one...except again, the Calormenes are not Islamic.
                      That's all fine, but my objection is that this is treated as a children's book.

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                      • #12
                        I think it's responsible of aneeshm to point out this problem.

                        I don't have kids, but if I did & they read these stories, this would give me a chance to discuss prejudices with them.

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                        • #13
                          I don't want to be misunderstood here. The books are a good work of fantasy writing, no doubt, but my objection is simply to treating them as children's literature. They make a great read for adults, and those who know the little things he talks about.

                          For instance, there is an off-hand about Caloremen baths being famous. Now in the Arabian Nights, the hamman, or bathing house, is described as a luxurious place, and is a focus point. So that reference is enjoyable to someone who knows it.

                          But to a child, if the "Narnia" associations are formed earlier, then upon reading the Arabian Nights, he will probably associatively judge the hamman using society by Narnian standards, instead of it being the other way round.

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                          • #14
                            ...dude, the Arabian Nights are about a guy who catches his wife cheating and goes nuts, marrying a different woman every night, screwing her, and then having her executed. Every Jew character is a dishonest scoundrel, every black character is dirty, ugly, stupid and mean, and women are almost entirely subservient.

                            Let me see my copy of the Nights, now. Ah, I remember some of these. Like "Prince Behram and the Princess Al-Datma," described on the back of the book as "a delightful early version of The Taming of the Shrew." That was a good 'un, and I think Shakespeare's version would have been much improved if he'd kept the part where Petruchio throws Katharina to the ground and rapes her.

                            I would hate to see someone's enjoyment of these stories ruined by the unflattering portrayal in Narnia.
                            1011 1100
                            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                            • #15
                              @ Elok
                              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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