Moore's Sicko

[Kuciwalker]

Of course this is all a definition game...

[Varwnos]

Originally posted by Pekka
Right, it is quite ironic, that he is the model of killing yourself and not too slowly either. I mean it's a GUARANTEED low life expectancy and he could easily reduce the risk and prolong his own freaking life. But he chooses not to do that. It's his life, so I don't mind, but still to make a documentary about healthcare is kind of funny.

To his defense there is a famous saying by Shopenhauer, along these lines:
"Just because i do not want to drink does not mean i can not show someone else the way to the drinking fountain"

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


The way wiki describes upper middle class it can reach well into the 99th percentile.

I doubt it.

99th percentile is 350k+

[Kuciwalker]

Yes. There are still plenty* of salaried professionals who make above that, and who can't be considered part of the capitalist class.

* I refuse to attach any quantifiable value to this word

[KrazyHorse]

and who can't be considered part of the capitalist class.

How many of those who make more than 350k don't derive a large part of their income from investments?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


The way wiki describes upper middle class it can reach well into the 99th percentile.

The American upper middle class is defined similarly using income, education and occupation as main indicators.[1] In the United States, the upper middle class is defined as mostly consisting of white-collar professionals who have not only above-average personal incomes and advanced educational degrees[1] but also a high degree of autonomy in their work, leading to higher job satisfaction.[2] The main occupational tasks of upper middle class individuals tend to center on conceptualizing, consulting, and instruction.[3]

That doesn't really place them in a percentile since the way they describe someone in that class the person could make a wide range of income. The defining characteristic for this class is that they still have to work. The upper class does not have to work. That's because they have wealth. An upper middle class person and an upper class may have the same income but different amount of wealth.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I would define "middle class" as lying between the 60th and 85th percentile.

You can define it however you wish, KH. That doesn't give it any basis in fact though.

[Kuciwalker]

That doesn't make sense, DD.

[KrazyHorse]

People who claim to be "middle class" with the median household income are generally kidding themselves. Unless they're a single individual, median income is fairly poor...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

and who can't be considered part of the capitalist class.

How many of those who make more than 350k don't derive a large part of their income from investments?

Probably most of the professionals.

[KrazyHorse]

The middle class are generally those who need to keep working to continue eating but who can afford to do more than merely eat.

350k a year doesn't usually fall in there, but neither does 46k a year (household)

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
That doesn't really place them in a percentile since the way they describe someone in that class the person could make a wide range of income. The defining characteristic for this class is that they still have to work. The upper class does not have to work. That's because they have wealth. An upper middle class person and an upper class may have the same income but different amount of wealth.

I know many professionals in the top 1% who still have to work, at least by their personal standards. They do tend to retire early though.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I know many professionals in the top 1% who still have to work, at least by their personal standards. They do tend to retire early though.

That's because of their wealth. When they get enough wealth they don't have to work and they are then upper class.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kid
That's because of their wealth. When they get enough wealth they don't have to work and they are then upper class.

That ignores the fact that most* of those at 350k+ could probably live off of their savings (retire early) but only at a cost to [material] standard of living, and usually choose to keep working into their 50's or 60's.

* let it be understood for the rest of this thread that I'm still referring to professionals - not top executives, stars, capitalists, etc.

edit: somehow I quoted KH's post instead of Kid's

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Probably most of the professionals.

What ****ing professional makes 350k a year and hasn't saved up a fairly tidy sum?

Professionals work up to that level of compensation. They're well into middle age by the time they get there, and have had quite a while to accumulate wealth.

I think you are way off with your read on the financial situation of extremely highly paid professionals.

My landlord is only an internal medicine specialist. He never cracked 250k a year, but he owns 4 apartment buildings...