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  • stupid electrical apartment wiring and air conditioners

    So I want to buy and install a window air conditioner. I've tried this before (two years ago), and the air conditioner worked sporadically, occasionally tripping my power, and occasionally not working at all. Then over the winter it decided it didn't want to work any more, presumably internal faults (Haier, which is good if you get a good one but had some bad ones.)

    Part of the problem may be related to, though, the lack of current available in my apartment. I have as far as I can tell 3 15 amp circuits in the apartment; one in the kitchen, one in the dining room slash 1BR, and one in the living room slash 2BR. I believe from the circuit breaker they each are 15 amp.

    An air conditioner, unfortunately, prefers to have its own 15amp circuit, as it has a very high startup (compressor initiation) spike.

    First off... is there any chance my landlord might be convinced, either through asking or through legal pressure, to upgrade the wiring? I presume it's quite expensive to do this sort of thing, in terms of adding a fourth circuit. (Or a fifth. The kitchen circuit makes me sad when I want to microwave and I have to turn off the lights...)

    Second off... is there a good way to keep the A/C from spiking regularly? I can use a UPS on the computer (basically it would share a circuit with a PC, a plasma 42" TV, and the room light) but can a UPS help the a/c also? What sort of UPS would I need (a tiny one, or a decent one?) Other possibilities?

    Third off, what A/C (standard window size) is recommended? Whirlpool i've heard good things about, and isn't horribly expensive (up to $300 USD is okay, for probably 8000 BTU). Are there models that are more energy efficient that would be less demanding on the electrical current? I could of course use a 6000 BTU one, though that technically doesn't cover enough area but it could probably manage; would that help? They both claim to require 15 amps/115V. I assume it still ends up using less current?

    Any other things I don't know?? This is in Chicago, by the way, for those who know local specifics. There are some indications in the code that 60amps is a minimum, but that is presumably for new construction only (this is at least 15-20 years old).
    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

  • #2
    I don't think it should be too expensive to run another line from the breaker to an existing outlet (as long as the box has the room), or even just to swap all the 15amp breakers for 20amps. I would consult an electrician and your landlord, and see if it wouldn't be possible on your end to pay for the upgrades you want. I had a new line put in where one didn't exist and it didn't cost too much.
    Monkey!!!

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    • #3
      Re: stupid electrical apartment wiring and air conditioners

      Originally posted by snoopy369
      Then over the winter it decided it didn't want to work any more, presumably internal faults (Haier, which is good if you get a good one but had some bad ones.)

      It gets hot in the winter where you live?
      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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      • #4
        Actually, yes. Radiator heat sucks, and ours regularly took the heat up over 80ºF inside.
        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by snoopy369
          Actually, yes. Radiator heat sucks, and ours regularly took the heat up over 80ºF inside.

          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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          • #6
            I recently installed an 10500 BTU window a/c (a Samsung, it rocks) on a 15A circuit that also has a bathroom and bunch of fans and a desktop computer on it. It's never blown a fuse.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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            • #7
              The Samsung's the army used in Iraq sucked. They'd periodically stop working if you left them on to long and since it was 100 degrees at night they were always on.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                Gee, I wonder why electronics in the desert may fail.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                • #9
                  scorpions?
                  Monkey!!!

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                  • #10
                    Re: stupid electrical apartment wiring and air conditioners

                    Originally posted by snoopy369
                    So I want to buy and install a window air conditioner. I've tried this before (two years ago), and the air conditioner worked sporadically, occasionally tripping my power, and occasionally not working at all. Then over the winter it decided it didn't want to work any more, presumably internal faults (Haier, which is good if you get a good one but had some bad ones.)

                    Part of the problem may be related to, though, the lack of current available in my apartment. I have as far as I can tell 3 15 amp circuits in the apartment; one in the kitchen, one in the dining room slash 1BR, and one in the living room slash 2BR. I believe from the circuit breaker they each are 15 amp.

                    An air conditioner, unfortunately, prefers to have its own 15amp circuit, as it has a very high startup (compressor initiation) spike.

                    First off... is there any chance my landlord might be convinced, either through asking or through legal pressure, to upgrade the wiring? I presume it's quite expensive to do this sort of thing, in terms of adding a fourth circuit. (Or a fifth. The kitchen circuit makes me sad when I want to microwave and I have to turn off the lights...)

                    Second off... is there a good way to keep the A/C from spiking regularly? I can use a UPS on the computer (basically it would share a circuit with a PC, a plasma 42" TV, and the room light) but can a UPS help the a/c also? What sort of UPS would I need (a tiny one, or a decent one?) Other possibilities?

                    Third off, what A/C (standard window size) is recommended? Whirlpool i've heard good things about, and isn't horribly expensive (up to $300 USD is okay, for probably 8000 BTU). Are there models that are more energy efficient that would be less demanding on the electrical current? I could of course use a 6000 BTU one, though that technically doesn't cover enough area but it could probably manage; would that help? They both claim to require 15 amps/115V. I assume it still ends up using less current?

                    Any other things I don't know?? This is in Chicago, by the way, for those who know local specifics. There are some indications in the code that 60amps is a minimum, but that is presumably for new construction only (this is at least 15-20 years old).
                    There are some potentially easy fixes, depending on your breaker box setup. Does your apartment have separate electrical metering, i.e. do you pay your own electric bill, or is it included in the rent? Most places here in Cali have separately metered service, but some don't.

                    If you have separate metering, there is a master breaker in the meter cabinet - that's the amperage you're concerned with, not the 3 15 amp breakers. If you don't have separate metering, there should still be a master breaker for your unit per NEC, but sometimes there isn't if it's a small complex, like 2 or 3 units.

                    Rewiring residential is a *****, because the wire isn't conduited. The good news is it's not generally necessary. You can buy duplex (2 on 1) or triplex (3 on 2) breakers inexpensively which will give you more effective breakers if you don't have room for a spare.

                    You can go to 2 15s in the space of a standard 1 inch breaker, or 15-20-15 in the space of two standard breakers. No rewiring necessary. Standard 14 gauge wire can handle intermittent load spikes to 20 amps with no problem. I wouldn't go over 20, and wouldn't want constant 20 amp load, but a 15 amp appliance that has a transient to 20 on startup won't cause the wire to overheat, if the wiring is correctly installed.

                    Typical residential construction has multiple pulls back to the breaker box, in excess of the number of breakers. In typical construction practice you don't care much about how many breakers you have, you care more about how easy it is to make a particular run. One wire pull from room to room to room back to the breaker is a pain in the ass, so you do two or three pulls, and tie them all to the same breaker, as many as 3-5 wire pulls to each breaker. The lazy bastards would probably do more, but there's a limit to how many 14 gauge wires you can stuff into a breaker.

                    The hot (typically black wire) leads are connected to a standard breaker by shoving them in and tightening a retaining screw. The neutrals (typically white wire) are all connected to the common bus at the back of the panel, not directly to the breakers.

                    The half-assed theory is that you won't have everything on at once, but reality is that "build it fast and cheap" trumps sound design, especially in old houses and apartments, plus people have a lot more gadgets nowadays.

                    Total cost of the 2 on 1 breaker should be less than 20 bucks, and if you're even marginally mechanically inclined, it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to install yourself.

                    If you want to send me a photo of your breaker panel, send me a PM and I'll give you my email. I can give you a quick answer as to whether it's feasible to do that way.
                    When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                    • #11
                      ^what he said
                      Monkey!!!

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                      • #12
                        Or you could move to Finland and the cold cold snow and hot blonde babes
                        You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                        • #13
                          and Pekka
                          Monkey!!!

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                          • #14
                            I thought he lived in the US?
                            You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by snoopy369
                              Second off... is there a good way to keep the A/C from spiking regularly? I can use a UPS on the computer (basically it would share a circuit with a PC, a plasma 42" TV, and the room light) but can a UPS help the a/c also? What sort of UPS would I need (a tiny one, or a decent one?) Other possibilities?
                              A (reasonably small) UPS ain't going to work, they just aren't designed to handle loads of such size. I can't think of anything affordable offhand.
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