Projects on dynamic historical geography!

[Ecthy]

There are some nice recent tendency in dynamic historiographics (molly ) and some nice tools out there to visualize stuff. Check out these websites. I've had a free copy of Centennia for a time now. Runs until 1995, the new version until 2003.

http://www.openhistory.net/

http://www.clockwk.com/centennia.html

Imagine the amount of hard insight we could achieve if we only acquired enough hard data that has been made available over time. This of course doesn't explain the entire course of history, but making as much sense out of it as possible can't be wrong. These tools help with space-time approaches

[Kuciwalker]

So this is like the post-game review in Civ?

[Ecthy]

It's better because it's real.

[molly bloom]

Re: Projects on dynamic historical geography!

Originally posted by Ecthy
There are some nice recent tendency in dynamic historiographics (molly ) and some nice tools out there to visualize stuff.

Thanks for the info. and tongue-in-cheek namecheck.

Of course those tools can only be as precise as the standard of information used allows, so...

However I do already utilise sophisticated tools called
'The Penguin Atlas of Ancient History' (and its successors), various Larousse encyclopedias and more specialized volumes such as 'The Twentieth Century Book Of The Dead', 'The Penguin Atlas Of Diasporas' 'The Geography Of Human Affairs' and such like.

Even individual volumes on particular states such as 'The Heritage Of Persia' by Richard Frye or accounts of the migrations of the Vikings or Celts often have very detailed maps of areas not frequently covered in depth by less focused books.

[Ecthy]

Nice collection

There is however a huge difference between a collection of maps and a dynamic map. However, as you pointed out, the latter can only exist if there's enough and precise data material at hand, which often is not the case.

But consider the past 200 years. There's been so much economic data available for that time. If only it was all collected into one database, huge macroeconomic mechanisms could be computed.

As for geographics, economic interaction also depends on geography. Imagine a detailed replay of, say, the first millennium BC in the mediterranean (different scenario, less data). So much geographical change of political focus, so much trade and interaction. But all we do is estimate things and produce a highbrow narrative in form of written word. Why not go a step further and MAP it all? Obviously the totality of the interaction cannot be precisely mapped, but it can be approached, which so far has not been done. These dynamic maps are just a first step.

They can serve also to proce/disprove ideas such as that of Turchin or Diamond, that claim general applicability over large timespans. Let the map run and look at the dynamic change of a selected unit - be it in its nature geopolitical, economic, demographic, or even cultural.

And then, does "abstract history" ring to anyone?

History is chaotic, but there's micro-structures of computable nature in every chaotic macrostructure.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Nice collection

There is however a huge difference between a collection of maps and a dynamic map.

Oh, I know.

It's the difference between reading a description of a suit of armour or a battle, seeing the illustration on Trajan's column, looking at modern interpretations (such as in Angus McBride's art in Osprey military history books) and then seeing someone wearing the armour in a reenactment.

I'd love to see the ebb and flow of human settlement, migration, exile, the Caliphate extending its reach into Central Asia and North Africa, the waves of Viking migrations across the North Atlantic and voyages as far as Morocco and Italy, the different Persian Empires expanding and contracting...

..it was one of the real delights of the early Civ games for me seeing the recapitulation of the states' histories...happy days.

or even cultural.

Hardest of all to calculate I would imagine. Even in 17th Century Europe there were still areas where folk beliefs were flourishing and Christian civilization was something of a veneer.

[Ecthy]

Well it can't be "calculated", but a map could feature current states of affairs, like spread of religion, institutions etc.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Well it can't be "calculated", but a map could feature current states of affairs, like spread of religion, institutions etc.

I think the problems with calculating spread of religion are manifold- obviously from the viewpoint of later devotees, exaggerating the early effectiveness of their faith is a good thing; from my point of view, looking at things like the witch craze in 16th and 17th Century Europe, the continued existence of folk beliefs and lack of real religious knowledge in the laity in 17th Century England (something the Puritans complained bitterly about) and syncretistic practices in Islam in Africa and India, it's easy to show that religions 'spread' but less easy to say for certainty that they spread either in their original form, or that they penetrated very deeply.

[Jon Miller]

Do you beleive those who claim to be trained by druids going all the way back to Roman times?

JM