Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Elements Of Dolchstosslegende In Our Exit From Iraq

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Elements Of Dolchstosslegende In Our Exit From Iraq

    What is the Dolchstosslegende?

    The Dolchstosslegende or "backstab myth" refers to a social myth popular in Germany in the period after WWI through WWII. It attributed Germany's defeat to a number of domestic factors instead of a failed military strategy.

    Most notably, the theory proclaimed that the public had failed to respond to its "patriotic calling" at the most crucial of times and some had even intentionally "sabotaged the war effort."
    The idea boils down to this: that the Western Front was still in France at the end of the war, therefore Germany was "winning," indeed, about to secure a permanent victory - when the socialists, communists, and especially the Jews "sold out" and negotiated a treasonous and cowardly surrender to France, Britain and the USA. Hence, the leaders back home "backstabbed" the troops as they were about to win.

    In essence, unable to accept the reasons for their defeat, the Germans retreated into denial, blaming their leaders and leftist elements for a failure on the "home front." As the wiki says, "such claims would codify the basis for public support for the emerging Nazi Party." And so, WWII happened just 20 years later.

    If this is starting to sound familiar to Americans, that's because we have our own version of this. You might call it the Walter Cronkite Legend.

    It's the idea that our boys in Vietnam were about to crush "the gooks" for good - that the Tet Offensive was actually proof we were winning, and Charlie was desperate - when the media, the left, a bunch of singers and their dirty hippie followers "sold us out," made the war untenably unpopular by their constant protesting and whining, and eventually botched the whole affair.

    Essentially, "stabbing our troops in the back."

    Instead of accepting basic lessons from our defeat in SE Asia; such as that not all missions are accomplishable, even by the USA Armed Forces; many in this country instead took the following lesson from the whole affair: that if only Jane Fonda, John Kerry, Walter Cronkite, John Lennon and their ilk had shut up for once, Vietnam would have been a stunning victory and the USSR would have collapsed 25 years earlier than it did.

    And so, 35 years later, we have the Iraq War. Because if you don't learn the lesson, you repeat the mistake.

    II. War On The Home Front

    It's now become pretty clear that we're not going to accomplish our goals in Iraq, whatever they originally were, and that the majority of US troops are going to withdraw very soon.

    In other words, here's a bitter pill to swallow, we've been defeated.

    The question is whether we are going to learn our lesson as a people from that defeat, or invent a new legend of denial.

    Here are some elements of that new Dolchstosslegende.

    Element 1. "It's Not Our Fault Iraq Collapsed."

    From Charles Krauthammer, "Who's To Blame For The Killing," Washington Post

    America comes and liberates [Iraq] from the tyrant who kept everyone living in fear, and the ancient animosities and more recent resentments begin to play themselves out to deadly effect....

    Iraqis were given their freedom, and yet many have chosen civil war...

    Iraq is their country. We midwifed their freedom. They chose civil war.
    From Ralph Peters, "Last Gasps In Iraq," USAToday

    Iraq is failing. No honest observer can conclude otherwise.

    This chaos wasn't inevitable... for all our errors, we did give the Iraqis a unique chance to build a rule-of-law democracy. They preferred to indulge in old hatreds, confessional violence, ethnic bigotry and a culture of corruption. It appears that the cynics were right: Arab societies can't support democracy as we know it. And people get the government they deserve.

    But it's their tragedy, not ours.

    The violence staining Baghdad's streets with gore isn't only a symptom of the Iraqi government's incompetence, but of the comprehensive inability of the Arab world to progress in any sphere of organized human endeavor. We are witnessing the collapse of a civilization.
    Element 2. "The Media And Leftists At Home Stopped Us From Winning."

    From Cox and Forkum, editorial cartoons






    Element 3. "We're Not Leaving Because We Lost, We're Leaving Because There's Nothing More We Can Do To Help."

    From Senator Dodd, "Senators Suggest Withdrawal From Iraq Civil War," Washington Times

    "We might provide some modicum of security for a while. But in the long run, this is an Iraqi issue," Mr. Dodd said. "The Iraqi politicians, the Iraqi police and the people themselves have to assume responsibility for this. They don't seem to be willing to do it. Therefore, I think this is, really, a civil war today, as it exists."
    At this point, I'm too sick of this crap to search for more examples... but I'm sure you can find em no problem.

    III. Painful Truths

    The important thing to realize is this:

    Now that our exit from Iraq has become practically a fait accompli, the main enemy is NOT those Republicans who continue to delusionally insist that we can win. It is the Democrats - the Bidens and Clintons - who give lame, dishonest and disingenuous reasons for why we are leaving. Whenever you hear a Democrat say that we should leave because "we can no longer babysit a civil war" or similar nonsense, note it well.

    They are the ones who are creating a false myth surrounding our defeat, essentially ensuring that we will NOT LEARN THE LESSON.

    Someone who wants us to withdraw from Iraq, but refuses to admit that there are some missions even the US Army can't accomplish is part of that myth-creation.

    Someone who refuses to admit that we are the ones who failed is feeding the Dolchstosslegende.
    Last edited by Dinner; May 26, 2007, 13:42.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    Do you go under the name PP on CFC?

    Comment


    • #3
      No, I reprint his stuff usually after sending him an e-mail. I don't go to CFC and instead get it from a post he makes at a different website.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

      Comment


      • #4
        In other words, here's a bitter pill to swallow, we've been defeated.
        Maybe some people have higher expectations, but who beat us? Al Qaeda? Hardly, they wont inherit Iraq - once we leave they become unwelcome agitators with quite a few people already mad as hell at them. We went in to remove Saddam and we did, now its up to the Iraqis to settle their differences. And surely we didn't lose to the warring factions, they're losing every day this continues.

        Comment


        • #5
          Basically by the insurgency in all of it's many forms. They will of course intensify their civil war. If the US wants to win it will have to pull a Turkey and turn this into a 10 year civil war where we either team up with one side and behave criminally in order to put down the insurgency or we realize we are done and wash our hands of it.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm a believer in the Cronkite bit. That was a desperate gamble on the part of the North. A great last effort which depended on American public opinion to succeed. In fact there was no reason to launch the attack otherwise since there was no chance of military success anywhere. Nice post though. The way they throw in the word 'gooks' to nail the point home.

            Long time member @ Apolyton
            Civilization player since the dawn of time

            Comment


            • #7
              that the Tet Offensive was actually proof we were winning, and Charlie was desperate
              Well it did destroy the Viet Cong as an effective fighting force for the rest of the war.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lancer
                I'm a believer in the Cronkite bit. That was a desperate gamble on the part of the North. A great last effort which depended on American public opinion to succeed. In fact there was no reason to launch the attack otherwise since there was no chance of military success anywhere. Nice post though. The way they throw in the word 'gooks' to nail the point home.

                If anything the protesters actually extended the war. Every time there was a big protest then the WW2 generation got pissed off at "the dirty hippies" and actually rallied back to Nixon. For proof just look at how Nixon won a landslide in 1972. I think he carried something like 48 of 50 states.

                The protesters were not just ineffective but they were counter productive actually turning people against their cause.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                Comment


                • #9
                  American society does have its issues it seems. Not like that would be anything new...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Berzerker
                    who beat us?
                    Iran, Syria, Russia, China, France,...
                    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                    Stadtluft Macht Frei
                    Killing it is the new killing it
                    Ultima Ratio Regum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Winning in relative power is not beating them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is when "who beat us" is a retort to "we lost"
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Then continue with Germany, Venezuela...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Germany sucks so bad it's hard to say that they won anything.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is really just every politician lying quite a bit about their reasons for wanting to stay or leave in Iraq...or what they really wish would happen.
                              "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                              "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                              "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                              "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X