Germans: What is the FPD party ?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Ecthy
VJ and Winston are indeed the MrFuns of Europe.

Let's not be unfair here, ok?













































To MrFun I mean

[Japher]

I don't mind...as I am British, I always get the last word on that one

Naw, us Americans do. Because if it wasn't for us, you Brits would be speaking German!

[Heresson]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Polish people claim that everything was invented by Poles.

It's more than a bit annoying...

huh? Like what?

[Winston]

Originally posted by Will9

Welcome back (am I the only one that noticed?)

Thanks!

As for Libertarians, a comparison to the FDP would be a rather superficial one, I think. Their platform is much broader than just Libertarianism, as has already been discussed.

Not that it really helps in defining them, but I bet their U.S. sister party - if they have one - is the Democratic Party. I know mine is.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Japher

Naw, us Americans do. Because if it wasn't for us, you Brits would be speaking German!

And if it wasn't for the French, Spanish, Dutch and assorted Germans, you'd have the Queen on your currency.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom


And if it wasn't for the French, Spanish, Dutch and assorted Germans, you'd have the Queen on your currency.

Germans?

French, vive Lafayette, vive le comte de Grasse, every US schoolboy should know that ****.

The Spanish came in toward the end, IIRC, helped shift the naval balance, but Im not sure that it would have made a difference to the Battle of the Capes.

Dutch recognized us first, and gave a big loan (negotiated by the guy in my avatar). Didnt DOW UK, but helped lead the League of Armed Neutrality.

Germans? Surely you just mean the ones who joined the League of AN as an afterthought, more or less. Actual participation of Germans in the war was mainly on the UK side, though I wouldnt be surprised if you have a cite of something else. Though if you do id be curious to see it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom


And if it wasn't for the French, Spanish, Dutch and assorted Germans, you'd have the Queen on your currency.

Or maybe portraits of Emperor John Bright the First. Keep us in the United Empire, you dont know WHAT's gonna happen.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris

This whole liberal thing puzzles me. Social liberal and economic liberal ? How does that in their concrete propositions ?

You're puzzled because you're a yank who has misappropriated the term "liberalism".

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Colon™


You're puzzled because you're a yank who has misappropriated the term "liberalism".

I hardly think so.

I'm just wondering what their real stance on social-democracy is. I could imagine an economic and social liberal, for instance, wanting to sack all social programs but enact a guaranteed minimal revenue or something.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Colon™


You're puzzled because you're a yank who has misappropriated the term "liberalism".

ugh. No. Im tired of folks blaming yanks for that.

From what I understand, towards the end of the 19th cent, there were folks with roots in liberal parties who broke away to the left, emphasizing social liberalism and opposition to militarism etc over business interests. Class support varied by country. Parties include the Progressives in Germany who broke with the National Liberals, and the Lloyd George Liberals in UK. In France these guys had more lower middle class support and were called Radicals (a term with more cache in France than elsewhere, not surprisingly) They were still, like the more business oriented Nat Libs, Asquith Libs, and French Libs, part of an ideology in between conservatism and social democracy.

A similar process happened in the US. The 19th c democrats were effectively conservative - allied to the Catholic church, and Southern Landowners. The Republicans were "Liberals" - the party of markets and business. The Mugwumps, independent Republicans essentially were like the Liberals who broke away to the left - ultimately these folks took the name Progressive, a European term.

In the 1930s the Progressive managed to gain control of the Dem party. The Dem party under FDR was effectively a coalition of Progressive, moderate Soc Dems, and some remnants of the old conservatives, under Prog leadership, united against the "liberals". However they took the name "liberals" because the Progressives, who led, never forgot their own liberal roots.

In Europe, where trade unions were stronger, the "progressives" IIUC, accepted Soc Dem leadership, and either disappeared into moderate SD parties, or lived on in tiny centrist parties. That they failed to reassert their hold on the word "liberal" seems just as arbitrary as the evolution of US (and Canadian) politics.

[Colon™]

I unearthed two more MrFuns.

[Fake Boris]

crisse que c'est toffe d'être colon

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


I hardly think so.

I'm just wondering what their real stance on social-democracy is. I could imagine an economic and social liberal, for instance, wanting to sack all social programs but enact a guaranteed minimal revenue or something.

Lijphardt's 'liberal' minimum welfare state

We can assume that the FDP, as a partner in a government coalition, would always support that kind of policy.

[Adalbertus]

You forgot the most important thing:

FDP resolves to "fast drei Prozent" - nearly three percent (Germany has a five percent hurdle, except for the Danish party in Schleswig-Holstein). Which comes nearly true every 15 years or so.

[ElTigre]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris

I'm just wondering what their real stance on social-democracy is. I could imagine an economic and social liberal, for instance, wanting to sack all social programs but enact a guaranteed minimal revenue or something.

A program like that would be political suicide in Germany. Even the FDP, the party of big business and of the "Besserverdienenden" (high-income earners) does not advocate a radical reconstruction of our cherished welfare state. All political parties in Germany still base their economic programs on the social market economy as defined after WW2 - or at least they claim to do so. The German social market economy is so immensely popular that no party dares to shake its foundation.

This whole liberal thing puzzles me. Social liberal and economic liberal ? How does that in their concrete propositions ?

Actually, the FDP's social and economic liberalism go hand in hand: the common denominator is the unofficial party motto: "as much state as necessary, as little state as possible." This applies to social issues (defending individual rights against the state) as well as economic policies (advocating a laissez-faire state providing a certain amount of social security, and anti-trust laws).