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Taxes have amazing power Ogie. I would think that you would understand that. 
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I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh -
@ LotM
Even I realize sometimes the maket doesn't work as fast as one would like.
**Looks to the skies to ensure no lightening bolt is coming"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Americans don't do public transport. Not to mention constructing meaningful Euro type systems would take longer than developing alternate fuels., we all ready pretty much now that public transportation
How does taxes create alternate fuels? Unless you mean taxing oil until current undeveloped fuels become profitable, in which case the consumer is screwed.and taxing works
Or we could just finance developing alternative fuels directly..."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
@ LotM
Even I realize sometimes the maket doesn't work as fast as one would like.
**Looks to the skies to ensure no lightening bolt is coming
No politically acceptable mandate will work fast either. CAFE standards have many disadvantages. One is of course that they dont encourage people to drive less, or to take steps like filling their tires to conserve gas. In fact someone with a higher mileage car has LESS incentive to do those things. They dont do a thing for transit, or for encouraging more energy efficient urban design. And they DO focus the energy of car companies on finding loopholes ("this is a TRUCK, not a car")"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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the consumer is also a taxpayer. If you use taxes, the most efficient of the alternatives will rise to the fore - or even none, if conservation, etc prove more economical. If you fund them directly, youve got govt bureucracy, govt picking winners, congressmen lobbying for the projects in THEIR districts, etc, etc.Originally posted by Patroklos
Americans don't do public transport. Not to mention constructing meaningful Euro type systems would take longer than developing alternate fuels.
How does taxes create alternate fuels? Unless you mean taxing oil until current undeveloped fuels become profitable, in which case the consumer is screwed.
Or we could just finance developing alternative fuels directly..."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Taxes and subsidies are just different sides of the same coin.
I don't really care which side of the coin you prefer.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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if you could subsidize my shoes in which I walk, or somebodys bike, or somebodys filling their tires, and not just someones solar power plant, or subway system. But I doubt thats feasible in the real world. Just as you cant even manage to get equal subsidies on a per gallon saved POV between the solar power plant and the subway system, not without getting into a thousand other issues.Originally posted by Arrian
Taxes and subsidies are just different sides of the same coin.
I don't really care which side of the coin you prefer.
-Arrian"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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A bit of this, a bit of that. I want subsidies to jumpstart things like "somebody's solar power plant" and taxes to influence consumer spending/habits.
I grant you the problems with subsidies (fighting over the funding, when to end the subsidies, etc).
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Precisely why I like them. Transportation of goods and services presumably is not adversely affected. In fact it would translate into better efficeincies hence lower costing goods and services hence a potential boon for the economy as costs are reduced.Originally posted by lord of the mark
No politically acceptable mandate will work fast either. CAFE standards have many disadvantages. One is of course that they dont encourage people to drive less,
In the meantime you work the other side of the equation by looking at alternate energy."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Yeah, they prefer to get their building crashed with airplanes. They prefer to invade countries. Americans need to change and adapt to different problems confronting them. The problem is that they don't want to. That's going to be a problem going forward as well because America is in for a lot of changes in the future.Originally posted by Patroklos
Americans don't do public transport. Not to mention constructing meaningful Euro type systems would take longer than developing alternate fuels.
We don't know if alternative fuels are going to be profitable. If we did the corporations would be all over it and we wouldn't have to subsidize them.
How does taxes create alternate fuels? Unless you mean taxing oil until current undeveloped fuels become profitable, in which case the consumer is screwed.
Or we could just finance developing alternative fuels directly...I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Re: public transport...
Let's not sit here and pretend that America = Europe. The population density is completely different.
More should be done, yes. But we're still going to have lots of cars & trucks. So making sure those cars & trucks are fuel efficient (and/or are using fuels other than gasoline) seems like a pretty good idea...
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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The thing about subsidizing as incentive is a lot of the time you are paying corporations to do what they would be doing anyway. It's just free money. If you tax you don't just throw away money. It helps with the budget as well.Originally posted by Arrian
A bit of this, a bit of that. I want subsidies to jumpstart things like "somebody's solar power plant" and taxes to influence consumer spending/habits.
I grant you the problems with subsidies (fighting over the funding, when to end the subsidies, etc).
-ArrianI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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The population density in Europe is different in part because gas is more expensive and they have better public transportation.Originally posted by Arrian
Re: public transport...
Let's not sit here and pretend that America = Europe. The population density is completely different.
More should be done, yes. But we're still going to have lots of cars & trucks. So making sure those cars & trucks are fuel efficient (and/or are using fuels other than gasoline) seems like a pretty good idea...
-ArrianI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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If they "would be doing it anyway" there is no need for the subsidies. You said it yourself not two posts ago!
If it was profitable now, there would be solar power plants now. But there are very few, producing an insignificant amount of power. Subsidies (and/or tax breaks, which are the same thing, really) would be aimed at making it more profitable so that companies would invest in the technology. The whole idea, of course, is that once they've worked out the kinks (whilst oil prices continue to rise), it becomes profitable or at least sustainable w/o the subsidies, which you can then remove.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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kid taking a more economically rational position than Arrian or Ogie. Now Ive seen EVERTHING!"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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