Russia is teh democratcy!1!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
"I don't understand the need to strive towards comprehensive freedom if that is not a real thing. How do you know you are recognizing parts of something that you can't even define?"

Well it would be impossible as well. I think that would be some sort of utopia in itself, so by very definition something we won't reach.

How can I recognize bits, well, I'll assume they are the bits of it as they'd be projected from what I consider oppression. So I get an example of oppression like say, government limits the things you can do by outlawing something. Say, government makes a law that requires you to come by every week and register. Just to check in. I'd consider that oppressive. So what I'd be looking at is to NOT have that. By not having that, what I'd consider oppressive, IMO would be then enhancing your freedom. Everything artificial that is enforced upon you, or most of it I would consider oppressive unless I have a choice.

So you want to take parts of something (parts that are real), because you think they are part of something ideal (which you can't really define except to say that it is utopia). Wouldn't it be better to just create the best reality for ourselves? There's something we can measure and it just seems better to me. I mean in your system you want to measure freedom by how much you are approaching some sort of unrealistic utopia. That just seems wrong to me, especially since the way I take it you don't actually expect to ever reach this utopia or even make real progress towards reaching it.

First of all, I'm not sure those are moral principles.

Well why not? The way you have described them they are moral principles.

Second of all, I'm not... these would be practical applications to ensure the maximum amount of freedom possible in the current environment, that's what I'm after. Practical. Thus anarchism would not be one of the optimal solutions IMO.

It doesn't seem practical to me. Take your example above for example. You don't seem to consider the possible practicality of requiring registration with the govt.

[Kidlicious]

Can you tell me about when you recognize these "bits of comprehensive freedom?" That will help the discussion I think.

[Pekka]

I just ate. I'm too full man.. I'll continue this later.

[Nubclear]

It is kind of strange that Serb comes out of hiding just as I'm in hiding.

[BeBMan]

Indeed.

[VetLegion]

I just watched a very interesting documentary about Russia, "Death of a Nation":

"Of 25 classmates 5 became junkies and 10 alcoholics."

"Epidemic of AIDS, 1 in 5 young people have it."

Irkutsk. Russia

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion

"Epidemic of AIDS, 1 in 5 young people have it."

Irkutsk. Russia

Sounds like BS, if you ask me.

[VetLegion]

Sounds like exaggeration, yep. But still it seems from the documentary that AIDS is a big problem in Irkutsk.

I'd like to see Russia a stable and strong country, but all news I hear from it are either about rich people's excesses or about extreme poverty and deprivation. It's still wild east as far as I'm concerned

[Serb]

Do you still want to visit Baikal?

I was there (Irkutsk I mean) and still alive. I think it's safer than New York.

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Are there not stories of Clinton's enemies dying in mysterious circumstances?

Oh Jesus this bullsh*t has made its way across the Atlantic.

Cort Haus, one of the components of the vast right wing conspiracy's smear campaign on the Clintons is a list going around claiming that dozens of his acquaintances died mysteriously. Supposedly, most of these people either learned or said too much for their own good and became threats to Clinton's power that he had to exterminate.

It is all bogus. Snopes explains the list better than I could, but at best the deaths' details are exaggerated, and at worst fabricated.

Anyway, threadjack over. If anyone wants to start a thread on this on its own, go ahead.

P.S. Yeah Russia is pretty bad off

[VetLegion]

I think I'm doing my planned Zagreb-Vladivostok tour this September if all goes well. Talked to my boss and no trouble getting time off then.

BTW., I'm sure it's safe for you, but people can usually spot a stranger from a distance and I'm no Jean Claude Van Damme.

My plan is to claim I'm from Serbia and try to pull the Orthodox solidarity card if there's trouble on the way

[Serb]

Good luck
I hope you'll post an after adventure report about your trip across Russia.

[VetLegion]

If police catch me with my camera around military objects I'll say you sent me, and that we work together to overthrow Putin

That way you'll have an adventure too

[Serb]

They won't buy a story about Serbian spy.

[VetLegion]

True