Russia is teh democratcy!1!

[Pekka]

Besides, I don't quite get the idea of brainwashing done by countries that are doing well.

First of all, we would call it propaganda. Or marketing . So, why would a country that is doing well would need to brainwash its people? To stay in power? If they are doing well, they will stay in power. The people would be happy, yes?

The ways to really affect the discourse would be to decide what the topic is. What is the thing people talk and more importantly what they don't talk about, since they are busy talking about something else. But that's the role where media has more power than the government in countries that do well.

Sure, the media is failing everywhere. It's becoming a business, entertainment. It's blurring the line of what is news and what is 'interesting' and what is gossip, it's becoming a tabloid.

Another thing is the media cohesion, that is, it seems that many major networks are reporting the same things and only the same things. You need to be competing so you need better coverage of an event, everybody is there etc etc. They just watch what their competitors are doing so they need to be doing the same so they aren't missing out.

So a lot of stuff just happens and goes below the radar because it doesn't really suit the point of getting those viewer ratings. That, plus everyone is a bit biased. There is no such person that isn't biased.

[The Vagabond]

All right. Let's call it indoctrination. At least, it's a more scientific term. "Brainwashing" is more of a slang. Or you can attribute it more narrow and special meanings as you do. As for brainwashing someone against his will, I think the term "zombying" (sp??) would be rather appropriate.

If you want to talk about counries that are doing well and the 'brainwashing' it does, or indoctrination, depends. What kind of a state is it, how is it formed etc.

It's quite amazing how indoctrination, while always containing elements which are plainly not true, may very much help in the functioning of a country, help in its geopolytical struggle, etc...

I am a Libertarian, so no, I don't recognize the power of anyone over myself or other people when it comes to ... pushing values or other stuff. I believe in a government that is as small as possible, that does not give us ideas of any kind what to talk about, that only serves to protect our rights, protect the nation and few other running errands.

So no, I don't personally think we should have any kind of virtual authorities telling people how to live or what to think. The way I see it, it's stay out of my business, I'll stay out of your business, let's respect everyone and just keep doing our own things and try to find happiness and try to do what we want to do if possible.

All right. Those are your beliefs. But you have to recognize that, as all of us, you are at least partly indoctrinated, although you may not realize this part quite well.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Pekka
So, why would a country that is doing well would need to brainwash its people?

Just to keep doing well.

[Pekka]

Well why do you think I am Libertarian to begin with? One of the main reasons is that not only do I want to be free of any kind of agenda pushing ideology people, but also I think others should be free of that stuff as well!

So everyone can decide for themselves. Of course I'm a product of my environment. We all are. The only difference between individuals is the degree of which they can recognize certain features to be learned from others and what is your own opinion about it.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Pekka
Well why do you think I am Libertarian to begin with? One of the main reasons is that not only do I want to be free of any kind of agenda pushing ideology people, but also I think others should be free of that stuff as well!

But the funny thing is that if everyone were truly free in this sense such a country as the United States of America would not exist. You may be libertarian or whatever you want. But your well-being rests on the fact that the majority of the people are indocrinated. Thanks to that, you are free to hold whatever fancy beliefs you like while still being well off.

[Pekka]

what the **** are you on?

[The Vagabond]

I am totally sober.

We've just apparently come to the limit of our mutual understanding.

So I wish you good night.

[Pekka]

G'night.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
Well why do you think I am Libertarian to begin with? One of the main reasons is that not only do I want to be free of any kind of agenda pushing ideology people, but also I think others should be free of that stuff as well!

So everyone can decide for themselves. Of course I'm a product of my environment. We all are. The only difference between individuals is the degree of which they can recognize certain features to be learned from others and what is your own opinion about it.

Libertarianism is an ideology.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


Excellent thought, actually.

If I understood it correctly, of course.

Well, I understand it as follows:

Once people in a country had been deeply and firmly brainwashed in a certain way (we may call it "upbringing") and while things go more or less OK in the country, the freedom of speech is of no special threat to the authorities. On the contrary, it provides a useful vent for people's feeling, an illusion that people actually have some say, which would be very unwise to abolish.

Is that correct?

Yeah, but I don't think Americans are brainwashed. I think they fell so in love with their country and what it is suppose to stand for that they now trust it completely. Maybe not to trust their govt is also to scary for them. At any rate its not healthy for a democracy. Govt can not live up to the peoples view of it. It takes advantage of the situation.

So like DeT said, it is better for the people not to trust the govt and to always threaten revolution.

[Pekka]

Yeah and freedom is a value. If you're trying to make a point, you are sadly failing.

[ZEE]

hold on... let me get my coke bottle glasses, put on some polka music, clip on my pocket protector, pull my pants way up over my belly, and strap on my suspenders...

ok, now that im totally geekafied im ready to particapate in this thread...




sorry. its friday night and i usually act like an ass around this time. erm, this thread is about russia right?
piece

[Heresson]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


But the funny thing is that if everyone were truly free in this sense such a country as the United States of America would not exist. You may be libertarian or whatever you want. But your well-being rests on the fact that the majority of the people are indocrinated. Thanks to that, you are free to hold whatever fancy beliefs you like while still being well off.

Originally posted by Pekka
what the **** are you on?

The Vagabond is right in this matter. It's a difference that rises also in pedagogics; naturalists believe in the freedom, so they believe they should let the children grow up as they want to, and support them, even if they were developing a totalitarian mind. Dewey or whoever claims that democracy should be taught.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


Horrible spelling in the first sentence.

I suspect it was intentional, though I feel left out of the joke.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B8

[Pekka]

"The Vagabond is right in this matter. It's a difference that rises also in pedagogics; naturalists believe in the freedom, so they believe they should let the children grow up as they want to, and support them, even if they were developing a totalitarian mind. Dewey or whoever claims that democracy should be taught."

Awesome. I wasn't even talking about this, but it's great to know I was wrong about something I wasn't even talking about. I wonder if you'll accuse me of murdering JFK as well?