A European Turkey would be more Islamist

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Originally posted by Ecthy
Has nothing to do with western Christian Democrats.

You might want to expand upon that. Both are religiously inspired moderate political movements.

Every political culture has its own status quo, and in Turkey the banning of religious symbols (fez, headscarf) in everyday life forms part of the laicist tradition.

So what? Opposing it is still the right thing to do.

Im not 100% sure. Doesnt this raise questions parallel to the French ban, and, in this case, even stronger? Turkey was ruled by a nominally Islamist regime for hundreds of years, however unislamic the OE sometimes was in practice. Arguably there is the real possibility of overwhelming social pressure to wear headscarfs, and the state (much more so than a Western European state) may not be able to deal with that pressure directly.

Im not saying I disagree with you LC, just Im not quite as prepared to judge the Turkish secularists on this. And yeah, the continued problems on this issue in Iraq certainly influence me (there of course the secularist regime was far more nasty than the Turkish secularists at their worst have been, at least recently)

[Ecthy]

EU will eventually ally closely with Russia and Turkey without letting them join. The positive changes done in Turkey until then will not have been in vain, they will make cooperation more feasible and pose a model to Russian policy makers.

This is of course an ideal vision.

[Straybow]

They've got their right pinky-toe on the continent of Europe, and for that they should be in the EU?

Bah. They're just lucky they got to keep Istanbul in the dissolution of the OE.

[Ecthy]

Stray, how much of Cyprus is in Europe? How does a geopolitical decision depend on arbitrary borders of semi-continents?

[BeBMan]

The EU isn't the Royal Geographical Society

[Ecthy]

Exactly.

NOONE expects the Spanish inquisition!

[DanielXY]

Yes, geographic shouldnt matter to us....

So I say, screw Turkey till they sort it out themselves and invite Canada instead

[Ecthy]

Canada is not of geopolitical or economic interest to the EU unless we want to invade the US.

A free trade agreement with Canada and the EU would make Canada the richest countryon Earth within 2 seconds.

[Ramo]

The appropriate analogy of the AKP isn't really a Christian Democratic Party, but the (US) Republicans. Their base lies in religious organization - and the policies they pursue reflect that, but they seem to more or less abide by democratic institutions. In any case, Turkish Islamists have been a whole lot better recently wrt human rights than their Nationalists. So the question, I suppose, is whether Ronald Reagan is fit for the EU.

[DanielXY]

Hm I thought Canada has Oil and isnt doing too bad in economic terms (?)... Certainly better than some of the new EU members, or Greece or so...

[Ecthy]

Ramo, I don't know about that analogy... Wiki definitely supports the one with Christian Dmeocracy. Apparently so does their self definition.

[Ramo]

In the fundamentals, that's basically true. But as far as social views go, Erdogan's probably a lot closer to someone like Bush than Merkel.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Canada is not of geopolitical or economic interest to the EU unless we want to invade the US.

A free trade agreement with Canada and the EU would make Canada the richest countryon Earth within 2 seconds.

I doubt that, but it certainly wouldnt hurt.

But Turkey already has an FTA with the EU, no? Canada couldnt JOIN the EU, while belonging to NAFTA, since there are inconsistencies between the treaties on trade provisions - to follow one, theyd violate the other. And leaving NAFTA would hurt them far more than joining the EU would help them. We've been over this wrt Quebec, and, in other direction, with the UK. Membership will follow trade, and trade still heavily follows geographic proximity.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Canada is not of geopolitical or economic interest to the EU unless we want to invade the US.

A free trade agreement with Canada and the EU would make Canada the richest countryon Earth within 2 seconds.

Not sure but I believe most free trade deals need to be signed by all NAFTA countries. I honestly believe the recent CAFTA and Columbian free trade agreements had all NAFTA states negotiating with the other parties though I haven't looked it up.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Not sure but I believe most free trade deals need to be signed by all NAFTA countries. I honestly believe the recent CAFTA and Columbian free trade agreements had all NAFTA states negotiating with the other parties though I haven't looked it up.

Im pretty sure the US has signed bi lat FTAs since NAFTA. But the FTAs are written to not contradict anything in NAFTA.