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Turkish Ruling Party Warns Army To Back Off or Else...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Asmodean


    You just can't justify saving a democracy with non-democratic methods.

    If we do that, then what are we really?

    Asmodean
    an interesting problem. Is it the army defending the constitution or is it the military over throwing the government? Maybe a bit of both. Either way the Turkish army seems to be one of the most trusted institutions in the country. More so then the politicians.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Asmodean


      You just can't justify saving a democracy with non-democratic methods.

      If we do that, then what are we really?

      Asmodean
      Originally posted by Whoha
      people with a saved democracy?



      Not all countries have hundreds of years of open and democratic political discourse.

      A place like turkey has little people who have the minimal education, and political culture needed for sustaining a healthy democracy using democratic means.

      This means, that sometimes, a democracy has to be helped by other means.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Patroklos
        I for one am all about their Army keeping their government secular. I would hope our military reacted in the same way, as turning us into a theocracy is against the constitution we have sworn to defend.


        The army is just another way of defending the constitution... if an elected government tries to pull of **** that the courts or parliament don't stop - the army should find a way to help.

        democracy is not only all about elections.
        it is about principles that sometimes prevent undemocratic outcomes of a democratic political process (for instance - someone suggesting revoking the democratic process getting most votes in an election).

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        • #19
          History would be very different if the German Army stepped in when the Nazis concentrated power in their hands to the detriment of the constitution. Of course the German constitution wasn't that old (1918) so people didn't hold it in the same esteem as in places like the US where it had been in place for 150 years by the time the Nazis took power.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sirotnikov

            (for instance - someone suggesting revoking the democratic process getting most votes in an election)
            Or Islamists gaining power.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Asmodean
              You just can't justify saving a democracy with non-democratic methods.
              But can you justify destroying a democracy using democratic means?
              Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
              Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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              • #22
                But can you justify destroying a democracy using democratic means?


                no, but then, while the other side will take the reins, and turn your country into hell, you'll be able to feel all filosofizing and morally superior. Until they put you away, that is.
                urgh.NSFW

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                • #23
                  a turkish hard-line muslim friend of mine claimed that the only obstacle on the way of islamisation of Turkey is the army. Therefore, Erdogan claims he must obtain control over army to conform to EU rules, but it's just a plot to get rid of this obstacle...
                  "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                  I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                  Middle East!

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                  • #24
                    QED, really.

                    yes, sometimes you do have to break a couple of eggs to make that omlette.
                    urgh.NSFW

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      what's QED?
                      "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                      I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                      Middle East!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Q.E.D. is an abbreviation of the Latin phrase "quod erat demonstrandum" (literally, "which was to be demonstrated"). In simple terms, the use of this Latin phrase is to indicate that something has been definitively proven.

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                        • #27
                          Funny how these army interventions don't acutally undermine the popularity of Islamic parties, and that such parties have only been gaining in popularity.

                          Yeah, hooray for the Army "saving democracy". Maybe they will actually do so with invervention # 6 or 7...
                          If you don't like reality, change it! me
                          "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                          "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                          "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                          • #28
                            according to your logic, You should not do anything if it doesn't solve the problem once and for all.

                            But I agree with the first part.
                            "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                            I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                            Middle East!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Heresson
                              according to your logic, You should not do anything if it doesn't solve the problem once and for all.

                              But I agree with the first part.
                              The problem is that people here some some insane reason seem to think that the secular system that the Turkish Army protects is democratic. Secularism was imposed autocratically by the founders of the Turkish republic. The Turkish people back in 1923 would never democratically have created the secular system that exists today, and the secular system was never able to undermine the deep religiosity of Turkey's hinterlands.

                              The fact is that as Turkey becomes more democratic, it becomes more Islamic, because, as the last decade's election results have shown, that is what the majority of Turkish voters want.

                              To state that the Turkish Army is stading for democracy is innane. It is stading for secularism, not democracy.
                              If you don't like reality, change it! me
                              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I know, I know.
                                "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                                I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                                Middle East!

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