The Senate has passed legislation ordering troops to begin coming home Oct. 1...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Oerdin
This is what almost 2/3rds of the American people want so the Congress is doing they're job and carrying out the will of the people.

Congress's job is not to blindly execute the will of the people.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
The Senate voted for a deadline and not a "goal?" The problem with that is the Constitution makes the President the Commander in Chief. Congress has no authority to order troops out or pass laws saying they must be out by a date certain. Congress cannot micro-manage.

Thank you

[Aeson]

I have a constitutional question...

Congress can declare war, but can Congress also declare end of war/peace? Or once Congress declares war, can the president prolong it into perpetuity (funding or not), with Congress' only option to impeach?

[Kuciwalker]

The power to declare war is not the power to make it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Zkrib: Weve had an extensive thread about the constitutionality of Congresses 'micro-managing' of the war and your argument has been roundly crushed. The republicans aren't even trying to opose the issue on constitutional grounds. Then dont need to the razor thin Dem margin in the Senate means nothing with a hard deadline will be passed, only soft goals.

I think theirs about a 50% chance of Bush signing but then just ignoring the goals and a 50% chance of a long battle and the Dems giving in.

[Berzerker]

Congress's job is not to blindly execute the will of the people.

Nope, its job is to blindly let the Prez do what he wants. We have a Decidership, not a democracy

[Berzerker]

Congress can declare war, but can Congress also declare end of war/peace? Or once Congress declares war, can the president prolong it into perpetuity (funding or not), with Congress' only option to impeach?

Congress can raise armies so I assume it can disband them, but the traditional way of ending a war is with a treaty and the Prez gets to negotiate treaties on behalf of the Senate. So, can the Senate require the Prez to negotiate a treaty he doesn't want to negotiate because he wants war to continue? I dont know if this has ever come up since it requires a real dispute between Congress and the WH, the kind of argument brought on by liars getting us into wars we shouldn't have got into.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Zkrib: Weve had an extensive thread about the constitutionality of Congresses 'micro-managing' of the war and your argument has been roundly crushed.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The power to declare war is not the power to make it.

Obviously. The question though is who has the power to end a war? If it were an actual war between states, the "end" would be when a peace treaty of some sort was ratified by the Senate right?

[Aeson]

oops... dp

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Congress can raise armies so I assume it can disband them, but the traditional way of ending a war is with a treaty and the Prez gets to negotiate treaties on behalf of the Senate. So, can the Senate require the Prez to negotiate a treaty he doesn't want to negotiate because he wants war to continue? I dont know if this has ever come up since it requires a real dispute between Congress and the WH, the kind of argument brought on by liars getting us into wars we shouldn't have got into.

I'm pretty sure the Senate can't override a Presidential veto of a treaty, given that a treaty already needs 2/3's of the Senate to pass.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Aeson
Obviously. The question though is who has the power to end a war? If it were an actual war between states, the "end" would be when a peace treaty of some sort was ratified by the Senate right?

See above.

[Zkribbler]

Zkrib: Weve had an extensive thread about the constitutionality of Congresses 'micro-managing' of the war and your argument has been roundly crushed.

Obviously because I was not around to defend it.

[SlowwHand]

Iraq is criticizing the vote, saying it abandons them and wastes the lives of those that have died.
These are also valid points.

And just so you know, draft is the only means of replenishment of the military.

[DinoDoc]

I wish there was a chance he'd keep vetoing the bill until the Dems remove the bribes they put in it to get it to pass from it and submit it clean.