If You Expect The Unexpected, Is It Really Unexpected?

[SlowwHand]

Well, is it?

[Flubber]

Sorta

Seriously-- I can expect that SOMETHING unexpected will happen but have no idea what. So you cannot say that the particular happening is "expected" since you don't know what will happen

[Will9]

No

[Japher]

I just listened to a lecture about George "Bishop" Berkeley and idealism. He was who was challenged to ask the question about if a tree falls in a forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

His answer; since perceived reality is more real than our invisioned reality the true/all reality must be more intune with the perceptions and less concerned with the invisioned/remembered. If this is a case, and if we ask the question, if nothing is real without perception then it must be the mind that creates reality, if this is so then what created our mind? I.e. what perceives our mind to make it real? His response; God. God not only created but maintains reality. In the case of the tree it will make a noise because God's mind is there to observe it/maintain reality.

Hence, since God is all knowing, all present, all time and it His presence that maintains reality, then there is really no such thing as the unexpected.

Though I could be wrong, and that would be unexpected.

[Aeson]

I expected a poll about a somewhat inane topic to be posted, but didn't expect it to be about whether it was expected or not. And also I assumed it would be on a day Perfection had been banned from CFC. But that would be expected, so I really don't know how to answer.

[Dis]

of course a tree falling in the forest makes a sound. I hate that saying. It irritates the hell out of me.

If you want, put a tape recorder out there, record the sound of the tree falling, and then play it back. Though technically someone is hearing it (but not at the time it happened). Not to mention science has proven why sound exists and what causes it.

[Japher]

They have only proven that it exists and what causes it by observing it. It is the observation that makes it real.

[Aeson]

We can observe sound waves without hearing them.

[Japher]

but not without observing them

[Aeson]

But that's not what the question asks, now is it? It says "hear" specifically.

[Japher]

No. The question is, does it make a sound?

Besides, the answer Berkeley gave was that God is there to observe it, thus it will. How does God observe? I have no idea.

[Aeson]

"no one is there to hear it"... does not exclude people there to observe it by other methods.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Japher
but not without observing them

That is only for us Humans. Unless one assumes that there is no universe without sentience to observe it, sound exists whether it's being observed or not.

[Japher]

"no one is there to hear it"... does not exclude people there to observe it by other methods.

That is not the question, it is a caveat, or condition of the question. The question is "does it make a sound/noise" not "did anyone hear it". In the question we are given the condition that "no one is there to hear it", thus we are aware that a direct observation cannot be made of the event.

[Japher]

Unless one assumes that there is no universe without sentience to observe it, sound exists whether it's being observed or not.

That is what Berkeley said...