Committing the mentally ill (homeless, VaTech, etc.)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


And what this guy's family (if any) was up to, as well. Let's not lay it all on the schools.

-Arrian

thats clear already. They were busy working multiple jobs in dry cleaning shops, were focused only on the kids academic success, were very proud of the sister who went to Princeton, and avoided talking about the bad kid.

IOW, they were, pardon me, typical Korean immigrants. Except they were even isolated from the local Korean community. I dont know why - possibly the parents had more than a touch of autism themselves?

In any case this is the classic example of where the schools have to assume the parents wont fill in. In my community, if a kid wasnt talking, hed have already seen about 10 shrinks, at least one of whom would be the kind of guy whose been quoted on NPR, would have had several meds, the parents would have talked at length to the schools, and 9 times out of 10 theyd have pulled the kid out and sent him to a private school, or tried homeschooling.


But we're the folks who take our shirts TO the cleaners. These folks aint like that.

We of course, are starting to get tired of the way FCPS treats our kids as little test taking homework machines. They want us to take care of their emotional needs and social needs, which would be fine if we could take time away from homework to talk to our kids. Of course thats mainly a problem of gifted education, the "normal" kids dont get so much homework. But again, its a sign of how they dont deal with the whole child, and mainly can only deal with kids less than std dev from the mean, so to speak.

[Arrian]

thats clear already. They were busy working multiple jobs in dry cleaning shops, were focused only on the kids academic success, were very proud of the sister who went to Princeton, and avoided talking about the bad kid.

Oh, I had stopped following the story in the news, so I missed that info. Doh.

As for the rest (no child left behind, tests are everything), I can't really comment as I don't have kids, so I don't know if your experience is typical or not. I'm sure my Aunt Liz could have an intelligent conversation about it, since she has 2 gifted kids and one with Asbergers. She seems to have had more than one battle with the school system down in North Carolina. I suspect she's "that annoying Yankee" to them, actually.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


Oh, I had stopped following the story in the news, so I missed that info. Doh.

We live in Annandale, the center of Korean life in the Washington area. About half the business establishments in the area are Korean. (although the shooters family, like many Koreans, lived much further out) this is kinda ground zero for this issue, here. The WaPo has run regular articles. POTM has spoken to Korean kids about the possibiltiy of backlash - though we have seen no signs of any.

QOTM reports someone on one of the education sites she frequents says a 1st grade teacher held the shooter up to ridicule when he couldnt read. This is still unconfirmed rumor, AFAICT, but I do look forward to some details about the shooters experience in FCPS. I can say that I can, a priori, rule out something like that.

We have run into teachers who think public humiliation is a good way to motivate students.

[Arrian]

The backlash thing mystifies me. Are we really still so backward that there is a real possibility of such a thing? Ugh.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
The backlash thing mystifies me. Are we really still so backward that there is a real possibility of such a thing? Ugh.

-Arrian

There has been against muslims, (and even more bizarrely, against Sikhs who were mistaken for muslims) Not alot, and that was a huger thing, but still nonzero.

I can say that one of my first reactions was "thank G-d he wasnt Jewish"

Now the Koreans havent been beaten up as much as we've been, but theyre fairly isolated and far more vulnerable than we are now. I can identify with the emotional reaction.

I of course suggested to QOTM that she take some of my suits in quick, as a gesture of solidarity

[DanS]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
there is still involuntary commitment in the US, which you wouldnt know from reading stuff like this. Its usually applied to folks who have attempted suicide, or have presented with likely symptoms of suicide to a mental health professional.

It has undoubted saved some lives. There are reports that it has caused harm as well - some folks who talk abotu suicide, arent going to commit it, and being institutionalized can itself cause pyschological harm. Its a difficult call for a mental health professional to make, and I dont envy them their task.

But its SO easy in hindsight, when somebody has already killed 30 folks, to know what should have been done.

How many of you would have committed somone and done so mistakenly? And no, its not always just a unpleasant semester break, from what I understand. It can be a devestating experience.

There is evidence in my neighborhood that not enough (by far) or the wrong people are institutionalized. They just can't take care of themselves. Incapable of it. Further, I would not wish rough living on the mean streets in my neighborhood on anybody.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DanS


There is evidence in my neighborhood that not enough (by far) or the wrong people are institutionalized. They just can't take care of themselves. Incapable of it. Further, I would not wish rough living on the mean streets in my neighborhood on anybody.

Evidence? I think this is largely a matter of opinion. I don't disagree that homeless people don't take care of themselves the way that we do, but I disagree strongly with institutionalizing just because they choose to live a different way. And if we did we would have to put much more resources to it and it would have to be done a much different way than it was before.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
The backlash thing mystifies me. Are we really still so backward that there is a real possibility of such a thing? Ugh.

-Arrian

That's the way I feel about it. People aren't in as much danger as they perceive they are.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
If a court so judges, a person CAN be commited. Its not that hard, really.

If someone is judged to be an imminent threat to both himself and others by a court because he's so ****ed up in the head as in the case of VA Tech why the hell shouldn't he have been committed? We're talking about a court that did in fact judge him to be an imminent threat to himself and others and incapable of volunteering for treatment yet stupidly decided to go for outpatient treatment.

[Drake Tungsten]

We have run into teachers who think public humiliation is a good way to motivate students.

It is.

[Arrian]

It can be - it all depends on the context. In the case of a kid who was struggling to read and who was already withdrawn, it's ****ing stupid.

In the case of a loudmouth attention hog who acts out constantly, I think it can play a positive role.

-Arrian

[Drake Tungsten]

No, it's stupid in the case of a first-grader who's having trouble reading in English because he's a recent immigrant. Introversion/extroversion has little to do with it...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
People arent thinking clearly about this.

I am

[Arrian]

I think humiliating a kid who was already socially stunted has more downside, that's all. I agree re: immigrant. Duh. That kinda went w/o saying, dontcha think?

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Unfortunately it is very difficult to control a class without publicly humiliated students who don't respond to anything else and the school administration and parents won't do anything,