Is religion an imposition on society, or a product of a society's evolution?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I think that a code of laws comes from within the people.
Christianity, in example, doesn't come with a Code of Laws, other then "Love God above all and the other as yourself". Later many christians started to apply the laws of Moses upon all christians, but there's nothing in the New Testament that justifies that.

Maybe not exclusively, but wasn't it still part of it? The entire creation thing looks to me like a religious explanation for the world, humans etc....

The creation story of Gen hardly explains the world. It just says that God created the world and everything. Most religions do morely try to explain how things evolved from something into something else, and their gods are gods that belong within 'the universe' and make the universe what it is.

Umm, what is the need for Grace if there is no law? Why must Christ die for the sins of the world if there is no sins?

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

I am not suggesting that ceremonial law is required, I think that Christ himself said that He had come to fulfill the ceremonial law. It is obvious in the New Testament that we are still suppose to follow God's law. And this included the 10 commandments.

Jon Miller

[Japher]

people created the church, not the other way around

but why?

a) Does society influence religion more, and thus lead to an evolving religion, or is it the other way around, and

Luther posted his 95 Theses as a response to the Catholic Church selling absolution, this in turn caused the protestant reformation. Is this society influencing the church or the church influencing society? I don't think the question matters. What does matter is how the established religions are anti-reform, which disentegrates their power.

b) Is there any way to rescue a religions tradition which has fallen into the "imposition" pattern, where it imposes itself rigidly and inflexibly on its society?

The only way a religion in the west can impose itself on a society is if the society, as a collective lets it. Therefore, in order to keep the tradition but lose the imposition is to alter the perceived need of the society.

I do understand what you are seeing, I see it every day. Society is wraught with CEOs (Christmas/Easter Only) and many people with the same mentality still FORCE themself to church every week, when they should be happy to go and should worship everyday if the truly believe.

Religion has offered me guidance that has taken me to places I wanted to be. I look forward to church, I embrace my religion, and find comfort in the thought of this moral compas that I wandered without for a long time. Can we change society to accept religion? No. The only other option is for religion to become mutable or die...

[aneeshm]

The OP wasn't meant as a criticism, it was meant as a question, as to how we can rescue/renew the monotheist traditions.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm
The OP wasn't meant as a criticism, it was meant as a question, as to how we can rescue/renew the monotheist traditions.

Why would we want to do that?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Why would we want to do that?

Because there is a lot in it that is valuable, because it can be fashioned into a great force for the good?

[aneeshm]

Reform is absolutely necessary, of course. But if it can be done, I'd like to see it done, because it is the only way forward. Religion, in the Western sense, acts to moderate society, and I'm beginning to think that given the nature of Western society, such moderation is sorely needed. We are at risk of going to extremes.

[Az]

The newer, successful religions (like Christianity) are much much deeper. Their point isn't the explanation of the world.

the newer religions are just reincarnations of the old ones.

Monotheism is the product of the survival of the fittest deity in the pantheon.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Because there is a lot in it that is valuable, because it can be fashioned into a great force for the good?

judaism and christianity have diversified so extensively I don't doubt there are already versions that meet all of your concerns.

[Japher]

Religion, in the Western sense, acts to moderate society, and I'm beginning to think that given the nature of Western society, such moderation is sorely needed

Are you saying that the current moderation is good enough and that it scares to many people away and they become crazy people?

[Heresson]

Hinduism is a product of a lot of alcohol

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Japher


Are you saying that the current moderation is good enough and that it scares to many people away and they become crazy people?

I'm saying that the moderating influence of religion started to erode in the West a long time ago, and that now it is going to an extreme because of lack of moderation, and that therefore more moderation (non-coercive in nature, of course) is needed.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Because there is a lot in it that is valuable, because it can be fashioned into a great force for the good?

Why do you need religion to do something good? Why can't you just do good?

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Japher
but why?

order.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Heresson
Hinduism is a product of a lot of alcohol

Whatever soma was, it was a lot stronger than alcohol.

Aneeshm, these sorts of thoughts are the result of not eating enough meat. Your faith has fallen away from its traditions. Get back to us after sacrificing a horse, Vedic-style. It shouldn't be too hard, you've already told us that:

A. Your town is full of women, and
B. Indian women are inferior and weak.

Now you've got a year to get conquering. Indra says conquer, dammit!