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Originally posted by Jon Miller
I thought in most old religions that it was only the warriors/etc that were honored in the afterlife. I thought that the poor were their slaves there as well as in this life.
In the afterlife, you reap what you sowed in the past life, and are then reborn, based on which direction you chose.
So anyone, poor or rich, meek or mighty, Brahmin or Shudra, can go to the same heaven, enjoy the same delights, or go to the same hell, and suffer the same sorrows, as the other, and then come back as someone else, to progress further along the path to enlightenment.
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Originally posted by Kidicious
No Arrian. You need some justification for setting yourself up as an elite. You need food surplus, but you also need some justification to rule over people.
edit: oh, I see. You're hanging your hat on the idea that religion was designed to oppress the masses.
Look, as an atheist myself I think there is some truth to that. But it's a rather shallow analysis to claim that religion is responsible for nothing but death and misery. It's human beings who cause all that, and the religion (as you clearly agree) is merely the justification, not the cause.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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Originally posted by aneeshm
Again, I'd disagree. The reason why tribal people in India were simply assimilated into urban life, instead of being wiped out, was because of the osmotic influence of the Vedic religion, which acted as a source of progress and as an agent of change for a very long time to come, and is taking up that role again with respect to society even right now.
I'd say the positives outweighed the negatives.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
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Originally posted by Kidicious
A very good and informative post. However, I don't see how that tells us why the society transformed from hunter-gatherer.
As I said before, the minute the first agricultural society was formed, all hunter-gathering cultures on this Earth were doomed, because they could not compete.Last edited by aneeshm; April 20, 2007, 13:31.
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Originally posted by Arrian
How does this in any way address what I said?
edit: oh, I see. You're hanging your hat on the idea that religion was designed to oppress the masses.
Look, as an atheist myself I think there is some truth to that. But it's a rather shallow analysis to claim that religion is responsible for nothing but death and misery. It's human beings who cause all that, and the religion (as you clearly agree) is merely the justification, not the cause.
-ArrianI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
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Originally posted by aneeshm
I was trying to address a different point you made, regarding your opinion that religion acted only as a retardant, or only as a negative influence. It was a Brahminical, or semi-religious tradition, which was the one which created this economic guidebook. The motivation was one of the four purusharthas (goals universal to the human condition).
As I said before, the minute the first agricultural society was formed, all hunter-gathering cultures on this Earth were doomed, because they could not compete.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
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A bit of both, really. Note that I said that religion was just the excuse, mostly. MOSTLY.
Ditto with communism. There were good intentions there. Unfortunately, when the system was mixed with human beings (what we non-commies refer to as "human nature"), bad things happened. They happened repeatedly - not just under Stalin. This is also true under many other systems (feudal, for instance, and many capitalistic societies).
Basically, people really can suck. Given the opportunity to act like *******s, generally we will.]
Thus, while I'm not religious and generally dislike religion, I must concede that if there had been no religion as we know of it, we humans would've come up with some other reason to fight wars and whatnot.
And that is all I meant when I said human suffering is caused by humans.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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Originally posted by Kidicious
You have a caste system and almost half of your children suffer from malnutrition. What progress? What benefit?
I'm trying to say that right about now, it is picking up again, reforming itself, liberalising, and acting once more as a source of progress instead of as a retardant to it.
But the caste system has been outlawed for the past sixty years, and all Hindu organisations have unequivocally rejected it, and whatever does malnutrition have to do with religion?
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Originally posted by Kidicious
You have a caste system and almost half of your children suffer from malnutrition. What progress? What benefit?THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF
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