Why the world is a better place than before

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm
We win because we're better, more efficient, more powerful, and in general can kick the crap out of anyone who has not made the jump.

Conquering people, enslaving them, etc.. does not make you better. It makes you an *******.

[Arrian]

General Ludd,

Ok, I just wanted to point out that I don't think any of the "modernists" in this thread have really asserted that society as we know it today is humanity's manifest destiny. I certainly haven't.

I restricted my argument, as best I could, to reject the idea, originally posted by you, that life today is harder/worse than life 40k years ago. I never argued that life today was utopian. Further, there clearly ARE things about the simplicity of h/g life that one could find appealing. I simply believe that some people tend to gloss over any downside, idealizing the h/g existence.

From this, I ended up in a semantic argument over the use of the word "specialist."

-Arrian

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I forgot why we are even discussing specialization. It's just crazy to me that you are calling the developement of a class structure speicalization of labor. For the most part there were religious leaders, kings, nobles of some sort, and peasants. You call that specializaiton of labor because they don't have the same role any longer?

Specializaiton of labor means that people divide up labor to get more work done or get it done faster. It's not about exploitation.

Prove to me that a religious or a noble class did NOT provide any benefits for their society.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Kid got really, really, really hung up on the use of the word "specialist" and we've been arguing about that for the last couple of pages.

-Arrian

It obviously has a positive conotation and is inappropriate.

[Arrian]

Ok, Kid.

Did you even look at the rest of my post, where I listed examples of specialists who were working people?

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro


Prove to me that a religious or a noble class did NOT provide any benefits for their society.

In many cases they performed sacrifices to make the gods happy. Is that what you are talking about? What benefit do you think they provided?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Ok, Kid.

Did you even look at the rest of my post, where I listed examples of specialists who were working people?

-Arrian

Those things really have no relevency. We are talking about a transformation from a hunter-gatherer society to a feudal society. Those other professions came later.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Conquering people, enslaving them, etc.. does not make you better. It makes you an *******.

You missed the last sentence of my post, didn't you?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kidicious


In many cases the performed sacrifices to make the gods happy. Is that what you are talking about? What benefit do you think they provided?

They provided the beginning of psychotherapy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aneeshm


You missed the last sentence of my post, didn't you?

Yeah sorry.

I do think that religion played a large part in many cases. Where ever surpluses occured I think they were encouraged for religious and political reasons not to make peoples lives better.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kidicious


In many cases the performed sacrifices to make the gods happy.

Thanks for this insight.

Is that what you are talking about? What benefit do you think they provided?

You probably did not understand the hint I gave earlier in the "those who fight, pray, work" post.

That's a classic view on a medieval feudal euro society as an example of specialization where each of those three classes (knights, religious folks, peasants) performs a special task within a society. And if one is positive towards religion or not - in a deeply religious society (like one of those medieval euro ones) a reglious class does bring benefits as long people believe they need it. The benefits of those who work or fight should be obvious.....

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro


Thanks for this insight.



You probably did not understand the hint I gave earlier in the "those who fight, pray, work" post.

That's a classic view on a medieval feudal euro society as an example of specialization where each of those three classes (knights, religious folks, peasants) performs a special task within a society. And if one is positive towards religion or not - in a deeply religious society (like one of those medieval euro ones) a reglious class does bring benefits as long people believe they need it. The benefits of those who work or fight should be obvious.....

Religion was more of a reinforcement of the society, not a benefit. If anything it's a cost, because otherwise it would not be needed. The same can be said for the soldiers.

[Patroklos]

Kid, out of curiosity how are you getting an internet connection from the middle of the Bush?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Religion was more of a reinforcement of the society, not a benefit.

Religion was more of a benefit of the society, not a reinforcement .

If anything it's a cost, because otherwise it would not be needed. The same can be said for the soldiers.

Vital to have as long as they are needed to assure the survival of your society.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro
Religion was more of a benefit of the society, not a reinforcement .

Because the peasants hated their horrible life so much they could fantasize about a magic place to be when they finally died? What on earth are you talking aobut?

Vital to have as long as they are needed to assure the survival of your society.

Only in a world where there is religion and nationalism..