Why the world is a better place than before

[Pekka]

There is no universal behaviour model for humans. Period. Also, what stimulates different people varies. Sure, materialism alone makes very few people happy. Who said my happiness depends on the toys I can get? The difference to the old days was, tehre was no toys like we have. That's not WHY they supposedly were more happy.

I still have all the ways to reach for my happiness today than before, except that I'm more likely going to live longer, most likely going to have my hands on more books and MORE content if I want to.

What you're talking about is the lack of spirit and mental richness, and that has nothing to do with the number of choices we have.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by BeBro


Then I wonder why people are not trying to live like bushmen in larger numbers

Because it's a culture that is completely alien to them. And they can't live specifically like the bushmen, anyways, because they don't live where the bushmen do.

There are many people creating counter-cultures and looking for ways to live outside the dominant culture everywhere, however.

Rhetoric aside, point taken that the 1st world is not representative of all of humanity. I suspect, however, that if one took the average life expectancy on earth now and compared it to 40k years ago, it would still be higher.

Even if this is true (and how are we going to guess the life expectancy of people 40 thousand years ago?) it's a completely arbitrary standard. Living a longer life isn't inherently a good thing, nor is it something that can be used to justify anything.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
There is no universal behaviour model for humans. Period. Also, what stimulates different people varies. Sure, materialism alone makes very few people happy. Who said my happiness depends on the toys I can get? The difference to the old days was, tehre was no toys like we have. That's not WHY they supposedly were more happy.

I still have all the ways to reach for my happiness today than before, except that I'm more likely going to live longer, most likely going to have my hands on more books and MORE content if I want to.

What you're talking about is the lack of spirit and mental richness, and that has nothing to do with the number of choices we have.

Good we agree that material posessions do not make people happier. So we are left with more work and more stress and nothing to make up for that except that we live longer.

[Kidlicious]

And I question whether living longer makes us happier. We still have to die and that very thought is disturbing. It doesn't really matter how long we have.

[Pekka]

That is just not very logical IMO.

[General Ludd]

Life expectancy is rising and so are suicide rates.

[Pekka]

Besides, notice the topic. A better place, not necessarily everyone is happy, we don't live in a utopia.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Life expectancy is rising and so are suicide rates.

Case closed.

[Eli]

You can actually and often people do, but at first you cling to your attachment to your old life. But there are many people in this world who become less materialistic and spend much more time going for walks and things like that as they get older.

Why are you retreating? We're not talking about moderating our consumerist culture. I for one agree that

Originally posted by General Ludd
You socialize. You tell stories. You imagine. You love. You play games. You make funny noises. You laugh. You argue. You dance. You sing. You lay in the sun. You live.

And why can't you do that today? Is it the corporations that pressure you? Or the TV adds that badly influence your fragile mind? Or maybe it's the fact that other people are idiots and are searching for happiness in Walmart?

People live superficial lives because the people are superficial, they always were and will always be. And moving to the Kalahari from New York won't change that.

[Arrian]

Even if this is true (and how are we going to guess the life expectancy of people 40 thousand years ago?) it's a completely arbitrary standard. Living a longer life isn't inherently a good thing, nor is it something that can be used to justify anything.

I think that a longer life is generally a good thing. YMMV.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

I think Pekka that you fail to realize how important mental health is to this question. And today people are not very healthy mentally.

[Eli]

You can actually and often people do, but at first you cling to your attachment to your old life. But there are many people in this world who become less materialistic and spend much more time going for walks and things like that as they get older.

Why are you retreating? We're not talking about moderating our consumerist culture. I for one, agree with all the problems you point to. I just think that the source of these problem is human nature, not civilization.

Originally posted by General Ludd
You socialize. You tell stories. You imagine. You love. You play games. You make funny noises. You laugh. You argue. You dance. You sing. You lay in the sun. You live.

And why can't you do that today? Is it the corporations that pressure you? Or the TV adds that badly influence your fragile mind? Or maybe it's the fact that other people are idiots and are searching for happiness in Walmart?

People live superficial lives because people are superficial, they always were and will always be. And moving to the Kalahari from New York won't change that.

[Pekka]

"And why can't you do that today? Is it the corporations that pressure you? Or the TV adds that badly influence your fragile mind? Or maybe it's the fact that other people are idiots and are searching for happiness in Walmart?"

I was wondering the same thing.

[Arrian]

Oh, and btw:

and how are we going to guess the life expectancy of people 40 thousand years ago?

We can't figure that out, but we can figure out that their lives were "easier" or somehow better? WTF?

The Wiki link I posted included statistics on average life expectancy over human history. I'm sure the prehistoric ones (and even some from historic times) are guesstimates. The trend, however, is clear.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Eli
[q]
Why are you retreating? We're not talking about moderating our consumerist culture. I for one agree that

You call it moderating consumerism. I call it realizing that in no way does not having modern things to enjoy keep me from being happy.