Why the world is a better place than before

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro


In some aspects, yes, but in others not. You seem to think bushmen faced no hardships at all in their lives. Nature is not always a friendly environment.....

No it's not, and either is it today. It's nice to have comfortable shoes etc.. , but in usually things were very stable for primative societies. There was famine and drought, things like that, but most years were pretty good.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


It's probably only partly true. It's likely an idealized version of their existance, created by starry-eyed western researchers who don't like their cubicles.

-Arrian

Actually any cutlural anthropologist would agree that it's absolutely true.

[Arrian]

Stable =! good. Stability is good if the situation is good to begin with.

Furthermore, famine caused by drought (or anything else) is NOT stability, nor is it something that one experiences when one has an "easy" life.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Actually any cutlural anthropologist would agree that it's absolutely true.

I doubt that. A cultural anthropologist would probably back you partially, and me partially, displaying FAR more knowledge about the subject than either of us.

Further, said anthropologist most likely fits into the category of "westerner who doesn't like his/her cubicle"

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
Hey, you choose to work hard. There are easy jobs. There are jobs where you turn off your brain and push a button for 8 hours.

There's jobs where you don't have to work for 8 hours straight, like an artist. Sure, you may work more than that in fact, but it is not the requirement. Write a book, paint, sing, dance, I mean you can even make up your own art and do that, as long as someone is interested in it, you can live on it.

Or you can go to certain parts of the world and become a bushman. People don't HAVE to live in a city if they find it too intensive. A lot of them do, but they still don't move. I don't see how expensive it would be to become a bushman. One way ticket, that's all, and maybe pair of speedos and some paint for your face.

Granted that it's nice to have choices and a lot of us make choices for ourselves. However, I think most people are pressured by family, corporations, religion etc.. to live according to the way society wants them to. In turn many of them are very unhappy.

[Arrian]

You don't think that 40k years ago primitive societies had social norms and family pressure?? Dude...

Imagine what being gay was like in 40k bc. They probably just stuck a spear in you and were done with it.

-Arrian

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kidicious



No it's not, and either is it today. It's nice to have comfortable shoes etc.. , but in usually things were very stable for primative societies. There was famine and drought, things like that, but most years were pretty good.

That still doesn't prove your point that it was better for the bushmen. Just that they had different things to worry about than we have today....

And btw saying something is absolutely true is no argument unless you can really back it up.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Stable =! good. Stability is good if the situation is good to begin with.

And it was.

Furthermore, famine caused by drought (or anything else) is NOT stability, nor is it something that one experiences when one has an "easy" life.

-Arrian

The point is that famine is a temporary thing, just like a hurricane like Katrina is a temporary thing. You can't judge their quality of life by assuming that they always lived in famine conditions.

[Arrian]

A temporary thing that could decimate your tribe. Famine is something that you and I cannot really imagine. Try it. Try imagining starving to death. Katrina was, in the context of a society of ~300 million people, a tiny event. A famine is something far, far, more damaging.

I am not assuming they always lived in famine conditions. I'm saying that the very real threat of famine is a MAJOR downside, and furthermore a potential source of quite a bit of stress.

-Arrian

[Pekka]

"
Granted that it's nice to have choices and a lot of us make choices for ourselves. However, I think most people are pressured by family, corporations, religion etc.. to live according to the way society wants them to. In turn many of them are very unhappy."

Could be. I do not equate this with a world that is worse than yesterday. These are all personal problems that people do not have to take. Many take, but it's not like they have to. They chose that misery, except maybe family issues.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
You don't think that 40k years ago primitive societies had social norms and family pressure?? Dude...

Imagine what being gay was like in 40k bc. They probably just stuck a spear in you and were done with it.

-Arrian

I doubt that. At least in the most primitive. Religion is social advancement and would be the cause of such a pressure.

[Arrian]

I seriously doubt that homosexuality as taboo started with religion. I rather think it's possible the taboo was there before religion, and was incorporated into most of them. However, it's impossible to know. It was my impression, however, that most "traditional" societies were highly intolerant of such things...

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
A temporary thing that could decimate your tribe. Famine is something that you and I cannot really imagine. Try it. Try imagining starving to death. Katrina was, in the context of a society of ~300 million people, a tiny event. A famine is something far, far, more damaging.

I am not assuming they always lived in famine conditions. I'm saying that the very real threat of famine is a MAJOR downside, and furthermore a potential source of quite a bit of stress.

-Arrian

Why would they worry about famine? Do you worry about getting hit by a hurricane? No, you spend much more time worrying about your kids getting involved with gangs, drugs, cults etc.. and worrying about work (getting laid off etc.)

[Arrian]

Are you honestly going to assert that members of a subsistance society (whether farmers or hunter-gatherers) did not worry about finding enough food to last through the winter/dry season? Are you ****ing kidding me?

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
I seriously doubt that homosexuality as taboo started with religion. I rather think it's possible the taboo was there before religion, and was incorporated into most of them. However, it's impossible to know. It was my impression, however, that most "traditional" societies were highly intolerant of such things...

-Arrian

No, societal pressure on individuals is a result of hierarchial social organization. Hierarchial social organization is the by product of such things as religion as well as other things.