Utopias

[Elok]

Originally posted by Barnabas
I dont think people should die because they dont have enough money for medicine or an expensive surgery, so I favour the sate giving free health care to everybody.

Libertarians think that would be avoided thru charity and donations, but it is bull**** for numerous reasons.

I think they are generally greedy and immoral.

By "they," I assume you mean objectivists/Randroids? My GF is Libertarian, and I think a lot of libs are like her: not immoral, just inclined to trust the government too little and businesspeople too much. I think it's a tad naive of her to think human society can exist without anyone in a position of genuine power, but I certainly wouldn't call her evil (as evidenced by my dating her). Objectivism, on the other hand...

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Japher
Problem is that there is a fine line between reasonible medical treatment and extreme yet functional treatment. I definitly do not agree with socialized medicine, but at the same time I want to treat everyone but have promote competitive research and ground breaking surgeries. Laissez faire works best for innovation but does nothing for charity or humanity.

My Utopia would have government put needs before wants, and work diligently to define a basis for a standard of living. IMO, this is why communism is nice since this basis can be regulated. However, it requires a level of government that discourages innovation.

American government, the opposite extreme to communism, goes way beyond what one needs and begins bothering with one wants. This is the big problem, and in my Utopia the balancing equation would be a basis for all/most systems.

I think the USA is the only first world country without free healthcare for everybody, I live in a third world country with free healthcare and quite good.

I am a capitalist, but I believe that for fair competition to exist, everybody must have frree health care, and free primary, secondary and university (for those who can pass the admission exam, get highest marks etc) education, otherwise poor people wont have a chance to improve.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Japher
read Thomas More's "Utopia", Thomas Hobbes "Leviathon", Plato "Republic", Francis Bacon "New Atlantis"

all nice

Yeah, not nice to live in. The Leviathan is all well and good until it's you that's being swallowed.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Japher
read Thomas More's "Utopia", Thomas Hobbes "Leviathon", Plato "Republic", Francis Bacon "New Atlantis"

all nice

I also like the idea of Dystopia literature

I have. And I read lots of dystopias also!

I wrote a 50 page paper on them in highschool.

Jon Miller

[Imran Siddiqui]

This thread rocks... some awesome one liners here:

[q=Elok]Randians don't have friends. They have expendable humans they can use to block the rocks others throw at them for being disciples of a psychotic money-grubbing she-ghoul.[/q]

[q=Jon Miller]Well, yeah. He is my freind, I didn't say I was his.[/q]



[q=Jon Miller]To be honest, he (this freind) is sort of a crap human being, but I like him anyways.[/q]




More (by which I mean more one liners, not Sir Thomas More)

[korn469]

How do libertarians propose dealing with corporations? I mean if the government almost faded away, Verizon, AT&T, and the cable companies would still own the internet connections to the majority of people's homes. It's not like some individual will have enough money saved up to suddenly build a competing fiber optic network to suddenly start competing with Verizon's FIOS.

Also what about conglomerations like Berkshire Hathaway owns insurance businesses that generates enormous sums of free capital that will allow them to use predatory pricing to compete? Isn't this acceptible. Won't the market find a competive solution?

I feel that Randians DO believe in transfer of wealth. They believe in transferring wealth from the poor to the rich.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by korn469
How do libertarians propose dealing with corporations? I mean if the government almost faded away, Verizon, AT&T, and the cable companies would still own the internet connections to the majority of people's homes. It's not like some individual will have enough money saved up to suddenly build a competing fiber optic network to suddenly start competing with Verizon's FIOS.

Large govts grow as the size of corporations grow.