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  • Chomsky is full of crap

    He is, and I'm sorry if we have some fans here. He contradicts himself all the time, too much. Of course it happens with everyone, but he does it in a way that should be debated.

    I watched the video power and terror, it was his ramblings OK.. it had a good point of people seeing that the post 911 rhetorics was dangerous in a way that other countries would use that when they want to adopt things into their own politics and use of power (non-military). Well, duh, that was the whole pretext thing most people around the world were concerned of, but the contradiction comes when he says in other interviews, how he sees, that as the poor people, third world etc. adn the 911 strike, that the victims of that event are not comparable to victims in those countries, so there's perspective for that.

    What I'd like to ask is first he agrees that there are different discourses existing and what happens in the US and in some other remote country, well, they have different understanding of the world around us, so if he draws the connection between the 911 victims and other victims, wouldn't that be a jump from another discourse to another, and quite literally from fundamental Islam into the heart of capitalism? Sure. So as as perversed dialogue has been established between these discourses, he has to agree, that it's two different worlds colliding, so why is it not taken into account with the comparison of victims?

    Ok, so if the West has oppressed some of the nations with their power, mostly these days by using their economic advantage, that's the direct connection he sees. For such a praised figure, I wonder how that very trivialized argument with no further backing can go without a challenge?

    If these hubs of different realities defined by culture, economy, history, politics, religion etc. collide, it's not happening inside one segment as he says, or then again he agrees there are these hubs that are colliding. So which one is it? He has very black and white world in his head, so in this very fundamental question, he should reach the black and white position. It's like choosing what ever framework supports your own thoughts, motivated by feelings and other kinds of stuff, but if you can't come together and stick with one long enough to have a consistent argument on an important question he likes to go over today a lot, I have to wonder why.

    I'd also like to know if he truly thinks it was a cry from the oppressed, or an act of terrorism. He would agree it was an act of terrorism, but that there were reasons why thsi terrorism was created, and it comes back to the whole west is powerful thing.

    If we look at terrorist groups, the main ones, I don't think they're about equality and happiness for all. They most likely see the west as a corrupted region that does not live up to the whole Islam thing as they'd see fit, and as such, are the enemy. The corruption must be fought. So it's very fundamental mindset, now I can't see how that is the war cry of the oppressed, of the people.

    So I have to come back to the first question, does he see this happening inside one segment, or a collision between the two, and what the cause and effect strings he is still attaching into things. It simply is flawed until he explains it or choose the other one.

    And if he chooses not to, well.. then it's nothing but populistic crap. Oh wait, but that might be true!

    That's just one of the very basic settings left in the air. Then there's about a million other arguments he makes that needs to be cleared out, which he doesn't do. THat's because he doesn't function in a framework. By that I mean that he can leave things unsaid or basically not waste time giving back up for claims, because there's the framework so we can see if it fits the picture or not. Then again, that's a difficult thing to come up with, so he just goes with random arguments, and simply does not back them up and I don't mean like facts from statistics or papers or anything like that, just simple .. solid and consisting flow of arguments where the arguments themselves are aligned together, that would be nice. But no.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    Summary?
    www.my-piano.blogspot

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    • #3
      I think this is just commies reducing everything to economic aspects, which is what they always do, saying that it is just an issue of economic expliotation. while disregarding the true religiosity of islamic terrorists.
      I need a foot massage

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      • #4
        wtfp
        www.my-piano.blogspot

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        • #5
          just simple .. solid and consisting flow of arguments where the arguments themselves are aligned together, that would be nice.
          A good sign that someone is full of crap.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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          • #6
            he has no idea of the history of islamic fundamentalism or arab discourse and culture.

            he's a freaking linguist. he has no idea about culture or history and that crap.

            he's just 'deconstructing' sh*t to fit his taste.

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            • #7
              Re: Chomsky is full of crap

              Originally posted by Pekka
              Chomsky is full of crap
              Old news. You should've had the balls to state this opinion five (better yet, seven) years ago, then there actually were some people here who might've taken him seriously and will listen to critique with open minds.

              He contradicts himself all the time, too much. [..] Then there's about a million other arguments he makes that needs to be cleared out, which he doesn't do. [..] By that I mean that he can leave things unsaid or basically not waste time giving back up for claims, because there's the framework so we can see if it fits the picture or not. Then again, that's a difficult thing to come up with, so he just goes with random arguments, and simply does not back them up and I don't mean like facts from statistics or papers or anything like that, just simple .. solid and consisting flow of arguments where the arguments themselves are aligned together, that would be nice. But no.
              Yes. This is evident when someone famous in public raises counter-arguments for him, or recent historical scenes (ie. facts, big events) make his previous claims absolutely ridiculous -- he just brushes off the unconvenient events or arguments with an ad hoc -explanation and that's it. His believers of course take it for granted, because the ad hoc -explanations and his professor-like mannerisms retain a credible image. But he's full of crap, been for a while now.

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              • #8
                Right. I mean, you can kind of go and jump between different places IMO if you are offering descriptions or tools to understand concepts or just explaining the nature of a particular thing. But when you're going on about a huge world affair thing with countries mixed up in it, a lot of history, all this stuff, and you just put it as 'US is an imperialist country and therefor oppresses everyone else, so it is only natural that the weak will strike back'. That's the basic argument.

                Ok, I don't think it's a very provocative thought, or an argument that justifies attacks, but I just don't see it being consistent with his other ramblings about this whole event, and that's because it is not.

                If we accept that US is an imperialistic country, which I can see even if I wouldn't agree with it, so but then the rest of it falls into place, because the first setting is true, and the rest is 'only natural'.

                So this is very one-dimensional thinking and definitely does not offer anything stimulating or new or .. basically it offers us all a big fat zero. It is only stimulating if you AGREE with it. But that isnt' supposed to be the case if we talk about a great intellectual. We must be able to challenge it, so if we hide behind these concepts of imperialism, it being true in the classical sense (without challenging the thought at all), and everything else being also natural and classical.. then we are simply ignoring a lot of things, as in everything, and accepting the model of ... a certain left wing type of world. I expected a bit more than populist ramblings.
                In da butt.
                "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sirotnikov
                  he has no idea of the history of islamic fundamentalism or arab discourse and culture.

                  he's a freaking linguist. he has no idea about culture or history and that crap.

                  he's just 'deconstructing' sh*t to fit his taste.
                  You sound like me in your arrogance, which is interesting considering you were criticising me for the same thing but on a different matter earlier.
                  "On this ship you'll refer to me as idiot, not you captain!"
                  - Lone Star

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                  • #10
                    Siro, that's well put, deconstructing to fit his world view.. basically if you look at intellectuals, real deal people with an ability, you'll see them being valid thinkers a 100 years from now. Why? Because they are offering models or something, a perspective. So why isn't Chomsky one of them? He only repeats the news, and puts his own twist into it using the old populist crap, and it's not like he came up with it in the first place. We can all read his future arguments on many websites.

                    So, If we never had any news from now on, Chomsky wouldn't have anything new to say. That is because he doesn't offer us anything, he just builds these events into something that looks fine to him and that's it. I have to wonder why people praise him as an intellectual. He simply isn't valid and he has no contributions. You need to have a contribution IMO. You need to be valid outside one event in the news.
                    In da butt.
                    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think chomsky will be known in 100 years for his work in linguistics, regardless of his political views
                      I need a foot massage

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                      • #12
                        yeah but that wasn't what I meant, now was it?

                        And I'm not saying he is stupid. He is obviously quite intelligent in some general level. But also totally overrated at the same time.
                        In da butt.
                        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, true
                          I need a foot massage

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jaakko
                            You sound like me in your arrogance, which is interesting considering you were criticising me for the same thing but on a different matter earlier.
                            Not exactly.

                            You were generally arrogant about america, and joking over how some army general probably took a decision based on his army grunt experience (or something. i'm too lazy to search).

                            I'm being arrogant over a single dude, and i'm not putting words in his mouth.

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                            • #15
                              Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.


                              Here, Foucault rips a new one for Chomsky, who looks like an activist with a book comparing to a real thinker with actual work. It might be difficult to follow unless you're familiar with the works of both, but the basic setting Chomsky is trying to lay out is pretty much something I can expect from a 17-year old hippie trying to justify everything for themselves in what ever it is that they do.

                              Unfortunately for Mr. Chomsky, he faces an opponent that actually has thought a lot about the nature of these fundamental concepts Chomsky uses lightly, and just like with 911 thing, if we agree, we must accept the setting with the face value and everything else falls into their places. Right.... that's his own domino theory I guess .

                              There's part 2 in it as well. Might be very boring to most, I found it interesting as I know the works of both people, well I should say the basic settings of the activist hippie and the work of a real thinker.
                              In da butt.
                              "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                              THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                              "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                              Comment

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