Could America's entry into ww2 have been prevented?

[Dis]

Of course the obvious thing to not do is attack Pearl Harbor. Would that have been enough?

How long would america have stayed out of the war? And what would have happened had they stayed out?

Russia eventually did recover, and perhaps could have fended for themselves. I can't see them going down. Can't see England going down either. Eventually they may have sued for peace if they had no chance of making any gains on german lands. France really had no chance to regain their country back. Japan would be in the position to make the most gains. Though I'm thinking they were starting to stretch themselves too thin. They still needed oil, and the U.S. wasn't giving it to them. Though it makes me wonder how they expected to get more oil by attacking the U.S. . Didn't that cause them to use more oil fighting another major adversary?

[Tattila the Hun]

Defeating US would have helped them secure oil.

[Dr Strangelove]

Japan really, really, really really needed to do something about the American boycott. There simply wasn't enough non-American spare oil on the markets to sustain Japan's war effort. The rest of the world's oil was owned by the British, the Dutch, and the Russians. The Russians and British were using all of theirs in their war effort. The Dutch were going along with America's embargo. The Japanese were totally screwed. Their only choice was to comply with American demands and give back the lands seized in China or to seize the oil in the Dutch East Indies. They assumed that they simply could not make a move on Indonesia without eliminating the American threat from the Phillipines.

Maybe the question should be suppose the Japanese had attacked the Dutch East Indies without attacking the Phillipines and Pearl Harbor. Would the US have declared war without having been attacked?

Here's something else to consider. The first German attack on America's coastal shipping came within two weeks of Pearl Harbor. The attack was off the coast of New York. the Germans could not have sent that submartine out after December 7. In order for a sub to make it across the Atlantic and back it had to sail at 5 knots. The sub could not have made it across the Atlantic within two weeks in that period of time at that speed. Subs already on patrol in the North Atlantic would not have had sufficient fuel reserves, nor could a sub on patrol in the Carribean have made the trip within two weeks traveling at 5 knots. Though after the war the Germans denied it, it's plain to see that the Germans had already prepared to attack American shipping off the eastern coast of the United States. Would the United States have restrained itself from declaring war in such an event?

[ElTigre]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

Here's something else to consider. The first German attack on America's coastal shipping came within two weeks of Pearl Harbor. The attack was off the coast of New York. the Germans could not have sent that submartine out after December 7. In order for a sub to make it across the Atlantic and back it had to sail at 5 knots. The sub could not have made it across the Atlantic within two weeks in that period of time at that speed. Subs already on patrol in the North Atlantic would not have had sufficient fuel reserves, nor could a sub on patrol in the Carribean have made the trip within two weeks traveling at 5 knots. Though after the war the Germans denied it, it's plain to see that the Germans had already prepared to attack American shipping off the eastern coast of the United States. Would the United States have restrained itself from declaring war in such an event?

Source? Operation Drumbeat started in mid-January 1942.

The attack on Pearl Harbor and the subsequent German declaration of war on the United States had an immediate effect on the campaign. Dönitz promptly planned to attack shipping off the American East Coast. Dönitz had only 12 boats of the Type IX class that were able to make the long trip to the US East Coast, and half of them had been removed by Hitler’s order to counter British forces in the Mediterranean. One of the remainder was under repair, leaving only five boats to set out for the US on the so-called Operation Drumbeat (Paukenschlag).

[...]

The first boats started shooting on January 13, 1942, and by the time they left for France on February 6 they had sunk 156,939 tonnes of shipping without loss. After six months of this the statistics were grim. The first batch of Type IXs had been replaced by Type VIIs and IXs refuelling at sea from Type XIV Milk Cows tankers and had sunk 397 ships totalling over 2 million tons. At the same time, not a single troop transport was lost. In 1943, the United States launched over 11 million tons of merchant shipping, that number would decline in the latter war years, as priorities moved elsewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic_%281939-1945%29

Even if there were attacks on US ships in December 1941, these could have been done by U-boats that were already patrolling in the Atlantic when war was declared.

[LordShiva]

Teh evil British would have made teh US join teh war anyway

[Dis]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Defeating US would have helped them secure oil.

they should have known that was impossible. What possible scenario could they have defeated the U.S.?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well they were hoping for a quick strike (knocking out all the carriers, which they failed to do), following by stalemate on the Pacific, and then peace, leaving Japan in a better situation.

[Fake Boris]

Dr Strangelove, I recall reading that the Germans used submarines to infiltrate agents in Canada and USA. Has it been demonstrated that the sub in question was given order to attack American vessels?

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Teh evil British would have made teh US join teh war anyway

Yep. By that time, the British had perfected their secret mind control rays. The US administration would have been powerless to not declare war on Japan, even though some website I saw once but can't remember conclusively proved that all historians agree that the RAF actually bombed Peal Harbor. Massive British propaganda, along with the aforementioned mind control rays, successfully duped everyone into believing it was Japan that had attacked - including the Japanese themselves!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Kontiki


Yep. By that time, the British had perfected their secret mind control rays.

It's clearly working on me. I'm from a staunch Irish Republican background, but I'm now under the delusion, as Ned said, that I'm a British apologist.

Quite what I'm apologising for, I have no idea.

'Are You Being Served ?' and 'The Benny Hill Show' repeats, possibly...

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Dis


they should have known that was impossible. What possible scenario could they have defeated the U.S.?

Sure, with 20/20 hindsight. I think the idea was to cripple the Pacific fleet, and, with threat of possible invasion of CONUS, force the US to negotiating table. (And don't say that they didn't have the transport capacity for it. They didn't, but the average american would not know it.)

Failing that, I think Yamamoto said something like, he (IJN) will run wild in the Pacific for 6 months... And then the american industrial disparity will crush him.

[Barnabas]

Couldnt japan just take indonesian oil?

Would the yanks have gone to war to defend dutch colonies?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun


Sure, with 20/20 hindsight. I think the idea was to cripple the Pacific fleet, and, with threat of possible invasion of CONUS, force the US to negotiating table. (And don't say that they didn't have the transport capacity for it. They didn't, but the average american would not know it.)

Failing that, I think Yamamoto said something like, he (IJN) will run wild in the Pacific for 6 months... And then the american industrial disparity will crush him.

I'll grant you that. Iirc, they did not believe americans had the will to fight, and were soft. So perhaps they did think they can force the americans to the negotiating table early. They were definately wrong in that regards.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Barnabas
Couldnt japan just take indonesian oil?

Would the yanks have gone to war to defend dutch colonies?

There's a few other areas between Japan and Indonesia, like the Philippines.

But it's not really a question of defending someone else's colonies, it's a question of being the dominant power in the Pacific.

[b etor]

Re: Could America's entry into ww2 have been prevented?

Originally posted by Dis
And what would have happened had they stayed out?

They wouldn't have. The US LOVES getting involved in everything.