A moral dilemma

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


And that is a terrible crime that deprives the world of tens of millions of talented people

May I be so bold as to enquire as to who are the perpetrators of this crime? Who are the ones responsible for the impoverishment of India?

[Kuciwalker]

The Muslims.

[Arrian]

I knew the word "crime" was going to cause trouble.

One could argue, I suppose, that India's own leaders have done it. Starting when? I dunno exactly, but I'd imagine some Brahmins were involved.

-Arrian

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The Muslims.

For once, this would be a wrong answer.

The economic ruin of India was brought about by two things:

a) The lack of the construction of any new economic institutions during the Muslim rule, and, much more importantly,
b) The destruction of those economic institutions by the British which had sustained the country through its worst times.

The Muslims were concerned mostly with taxes - as long as they had their loot, they were mostly happy. They were not interested in trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

The British, on the other hand, actively destroyed those same institutions. Why do you think that Chanakya's economic policies, many of which make sense EVEN NOW in the context of the rural agricultural economy, were lost, and their constructive power never put to use for over a thousand years?





It's like a sort of blindness, actually. Up to 1000 AD - everything is mostly fine, and famine is unknown (not to speak of the fact that India was ahead of the rest of the world in pretty much everything). Right now - impoverished, broken nation, its culture dissipated and dying, its people having no sense of nation at all, its polity corrupted, its territorial integrity threatened, its enemies on the rise......

What happened? Nobody ever asks that question. It's as if some person was living amidst the ruins of Rome, and never thinking what happened to the great civilisation which left those ruins, never asking what happened there, never having a sense of history at all. We live in the ruins of one of the great cultures of man, and we don't question what happened to the people who left those ruins, why they are ruined in the first place.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The Muslims.

It's the British.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian
I knew the word "crime" was going to cause trouble.

One could argue, I suppose, that India's own leaders have done it. Starting when? I dunno exactly, but I'd imagine some Brahmins were involved.

-Arrian

No, please, this is something close to my heart, and I'd like a serious answer.

Why do you think this happened? How do you think was India reduced from the pinnacle of civilisation in the world to the nothingness which it is today?

[aneeshm]

In fact, this is an open question to all browsing this thread - what, in your opinion, caused the downfall and demise of India?

[Arrian]

Pinnacle? Nothingness?

Anyway, I don't think there is one simple answer. Many factors played into it, both internal and external.

-Arrian

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian

Pinnacle?

For it's time, it was a pinnacle.

Originally posted by Arrian

Nothingness?

Relative to the position before, again yes, this is nothingness.

Originally posted by Arrian

Anyway, I don't think there is one simple answer. Many factors played into it, both internal and external.

-Arrian

I have infinite patience. Please feel free to elaborate.

[Arrian]

Right now - impoverished, broken nation, its culture dissipated and dying, its people having no sense of nation at all, its polity corrupted, its territorial integrity threatened, its enemies on the rise...

Chill. It doesn't look that bad to me.

Though I'll give you this: lots and lots of people looked into the question of "why did Rome fall?" I'm not sure as many have looked into a similar question about India.

The answer wrt Rome was a mixture of things, in the end. The simple answer was "overwhelmed by barbarians from without because of interal decay (bad government)." But there were other factors, like plagues, that don't necessarily appear in the condensed highschool history book version.

-Arrian

[Japher]

what, in your opinion, caused the downfall and demise of India?

Lack of infrastructure, most importantly sanitation and a police force. Perhpase this is due to political unrest and a lack of tolerance to religious differences.

It's so much easier to blame than it is to do.

[Arrian]

I have infinite patience. Please feel free to elaborate

I am not qualified to offer the answers. I don't know enough about Indian history. What I do know from Western history, though, is that the rise & fall of civilizations is a rather complex phenomenon. So looking for "the answer" is really to look for many answers... unless you're not really interested in the truth, but rather blame.

-Arrian

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian

Chill. It doesn't look that bad to me.

That's because you aren't actually seeing all this stuff happen. I am.

Originally posted by Arrian

Though I'll give you this: lots and lots of people looked into the question of "why did Rome fall?" I'm not sure as many have looked into a similar question about India.

Nobody has looked into why India fell because that is a sort of self-created blind spot.

Originally posted by Arrian

The answer wrt Rome was a mixture of things, in the end. The simple answer was "overwhelmed by barbarians from without because of interal decay (bad government)." But there were other factors, like plagues, that don't necessarily appear in the condensed highschool history book version.

-Arrian

Again, what do you think was the answer WRT India?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Japher


Lack of infrastructure, most importantly sanitation and a police force. Perhpase this is due to political unrest and a lack of tolerance to religious differences.

It's so much easier to blame than it is to do.

Could you please elaborate? I am completely unable to understand this comment. Which era is is specifically supposed to refer to?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian


I am not qualified to offer the answers. I don't know enough about Indian history. What I do know from Western history, though, is that the rise & fall of civilizations is a rather complex phenomenon. So looking for "the answer" is really to look for many answers... unless you're not really interested in the truth, but rather blame.

-Arrian

I'm quite interested in the truth. Maybe if we know what caused it, we can avoid it next time around. It is only truth that can set us free.

In fact, if it turned out that it was ONLY internal corruption that caused the demise (though this happening is as remote as pigs flying, but assuming for the sake of argument that it is so concluded), I'd still accept that, and try to learn from it.